--- Log opened Tue Mar 26 00:00:23 2013
00:03 < ins0mnia> anyone can recommend a decent laptop to buy that is not mac?
00:03 < ins0mnia> my dell is dying on me
00:20 < mikolalysenko> chrisdickinson:  Is there a way to get browservefy to spit out a gh-page configured directory, or is there some module for that?
00:27 < mikolalysenko> actually, thinking about it probably isn't worth the trouble to add it
00:35 < mikolalysenko> Yay!  Demo is done:  https://github.com/mikolalysenko/n-body-bench
00:36 < jesusabdullah> substack: indeed
00:36 < jesusabdullah> substack: I have to admit I don't quite understand what changed w/ nextTick and when to use setImmediate
00:48 < substack> isaacs: at 41 I'll be BIGGER THAN JESUS
00:49 < isaacs> substack: or at least, bigger than noah
00:49 < isaacs> but srsly, who gives a fuck about noah?
00:50 < substack> noah is a hilarious source of geology denialism
00:50 < isaacs> yeah
00:51 < defunctzombie> jesusabdullah: basic rule is.. avoid them both
00:51 < defunctzombie> jesusabdullah: if you have to defer something, good chance that is going to cause some edge case somewhere haha
00:51 < isaacs> and basically, he's just Atra-Hasis, but the new fangled sold-out version
00:52 < isaacs> sumerian mythology was way more interesting.  more superheroes.
00:56 < jjjjohnnny> noahs ark but instead of animals it was all human races and it turned into a big orgy
00:57 < jjjjohnnny> 2000 races in, one out
00:58 < Raynos> i should make troll modules on npm
00:58 < Raynos> `npm i troll -g`
00:58 < Raynos> `troll substack`
00:58 < Raynos> that should git clone all of substacks modules
00:59 < Raynos> and republish them as coffeescript components on component
00:59 < Raynos> or maybe coffeescript amd on jamjas
00:59 < mikolalysenko> and also add a templating engine to each of them just for the hell of it
00:59 < Raynos> `troll substack --amd` vs `troll substack --component`
00:59 < Raynos> YEAH!
00:59 < Raynos> It should add a new method to each module
01:00 < Raynos> that is one of the 2k template engines in npm
01:00 < mikolalysenko> or an orm
01:00 < Raynos> xd'
01:06 < isaacs> jjjjohnnny: IT'S HAPPENING, BUT ITS CALLED EARTH!!
01:07 < isaacs> troll substack --harmony_modules
01:07 < isaacs> Raynos: you just specify a v8 flag, and it sends @substack a tweet reminding him that it exists.
01:07 < Raynos> xd
01:19 < jjjjohnnny> isaacs: psh you expect me to believe that?
01:20 < jjjjohnnny> webkitGetUserMedia why do you not accept my three arguments as enough
01:21 < mbalho> rvagg: lol @ trans-siberian express
01:23 < jjjjohnnny> A: becuz i am spoofing my user agent apparently
01:23 < mbalho> mikolalysenko: my workflow for browservefy + gh-pages is to put bundle.js in my index.html script tag, and have an npm start command that 'browservefy demo.js:bundle.js', then when i wanna deploy to gh-pages i just checkout gh-pages, merge master, then do browserify demo.js -o bundle.js. i'm sure this could made a 1-click solution
01:28 < mikolalysenko> mbalho: Thanks, nice tip!
01:29 < mbalho> mikolalysenko: its been interesting do so much client side dev with npm, github and browserify. there is definitely lotsa tooling that needs to happen to make the workflow easy for newbs
01:31 < mikolalysenko> mbalho: true, but the benefits far outweigh the costs
01:31 < mbalho> oh yea totally
01:31 < mbalho> i want to make it easier than downloading a script and adding a new <script> tag though, thats all
01:35 < jesusabdullah> okay who here knows things about libuv
01:35 < jesusabdullah> isaacs: you maybe?
01:35 < substack> mbalho: I think I disagree here.
01:36 < substack> showing new people lots of tooling right away is confusing
01:36 < substack> it's hard enough to just figure out what the browserify command itself does
01:36 < substack> only after they understand the base tool should they be graduating to more advanced tooling
01:37 < substack> promoting more advanced things right away is "magic" in a bad way
01:37 < jesusabdullah> BE A MAN
01:37 < LOUDBOT> HAHAHA YOU ALL SUCK
01:37 < isaacs> mbalho, substack: in my opinion, as a general rule of thumb, each <code> block should have about 4 moving parts, all of which are visible.
01:38 < substack> running a command is not hard, it's just annoying to run that command every time you update a file
01:38 < isaacs> if there are moving parts you don't care about, fine, you can magic them away (like, libuv, most of npm, etc) and just say "This does X
01:38 < isaacs> "
01:38 < mbalho> substack: i dont think the solution is lots of tooling, i think it is easy to learn tooling, build on lower level tooling
01:39 < mbalho> substack: not eveyrone wants to be a low level person, and i think as a tool maker you have to decide if you want to be a purist and only make tools for other toolmakers
01:39 < substack> mbalho: I think it's more like people being told to learn express or geddy without knowing how http.createServer() works
01:39 < Raynos> I think we need more magic
01:39 < substack> when the basis that http.createServer() sets up for expectations is really valuable
01:39 < Raynos> just port rails to client-side javascript
01:40 < substack> even if you never use it directly
01:40 < mbalho> just cause express and geddy are bad doesnt make the idea of high level solutions bad
01:40 < substack> I'm not saying they are necessarily bad but I don't use them
01:41 < mbalho> im saying they are bad then :)
01:42 < mbalho> the thing that express and geddy have going for them is centralized consistent documentation, support and exptecation setting about use cases
01:42 < mbalho> e.g smaller surface area
01:42 < substack> documentation surface area, which is very different from api
01:42 < substack> that is valuable though
01:43 < Raynos> EVERYONE SHOULD BE MORE LIKE DOMINICTARR
01:43 < LOUDBOT> UGLY UGLY BAGS OF MOSTLY WATER
01:43 < Raynos> THIS IS THE NEW RULE.
01:43 < LOUDBOT> IF YOUR DOING STATISTICS YOU NEED TOO USE R!!!!!
01:43 < substack> Raynos: in what way?
01:43 < mbalho> i understand 30% or dominictarrs readmes
01:43 < Raynos> open source experimentation
01:43 < mbalho> of*
01:43 < Raynos> and many many small modules
01:43 < Raynos> only 30% of his modules are good ideas
01:43 < Raynos> the rest are crazy
01:43 < Raynos> but that is awesome
01:44 < dominictarr> mbalho: please post an issue are if you don't understand
01:44 < Raynos> i feel like i have to compete with his ability to output a large volume of mad science
01:44 < Raynos> dominictarr: have our your readmes are just rambling xd
01:44 < mbalho> dominictarr: they eventually get better but usually they are terse at first
01:45 < mbalho> dominictarr: we were arguing about surface area
01:45 < dominictarr> mbalho: if you can post an issue that asks a question, that will most probably spurn me to write something explaining it
01:45 < mbalho> dominictarr: i get how open source works, wasnt trying to attack you
01:46 < dominictarr> mbalho: I wasn't defending my self
01:46 < mbalho> dominictarr: sorry, hard to interpret things over pure text channels
01:46 < dominictarr> I was just encouraging you to post issues so that I get better readmes!
01:46 < dominictarr> no problem
01:47 < mbalho> dominictarr: you should have a giant map of dominictarrlandia
01:47 < substack> I want this for presentations: http://www.enlightenment.org/p.php?p=about/terminology&l=en
01:47 < mbalho> dominictarr: in which all your modules are clustered around solving problems in a giant network visualiation/map thing
01:47 < substack> the ability to change the terminal background with a command would be very useful
01:47 < substack> then I could use the terminal background for hand-drawn cartoon slides
01:47 < dominictarr> mbalho: oh, to show what related problems they solve?
01:47 < substack> but without leaving the shell
01:47 < mbalho> dominictarr: yea
01:48 < dominictarr> that is a good idea!
01:48 < mbalho> dominictarr: basically some more approachable curated listnings
01:48 < mbalho> listings
01:48 < jesusabdullah> isaacs: is sync spawn possible? I'm thinking userspace
01:48 < jesusabdullah> AvianFlu: Do you know? ^^
01:49 < isaacs> jesusabdullah: well, sync spawn would be impossible, for obvious reasons.
01:49 < isaacs> jesusabdullah: but sync exec would be possible, in theory
01:49 < isaacs> jesusabdullah: please discuss this over in #libuv
01:50 < isaacs> jesusabdullah: there's an issue on it.  i think bradley was working on it
01:50 < dominictarr> jesusabdullah: there is a thing you can do, but it's pure evil.
01:51 < Raynos> talking of shitty readme's :D
01:51 < Raynos> I never document or explain anything
01:51 < Raynos> and then I have the nerve to use that weird function last style
01:51 < dominictarr> yes
01:53 < Raynos> man
01:53 < Raynos> im looking at haskell GUI libraries for inspiration
01:53 < Raynos> and now im like "wut even is this"
01:53 < mikolalysenko> hmm
01:53 < Raynos> Oh wait
01:53 < Raynos> Im supposed to look at clojure gui frameworks
01:53 < mikolalysenko> are there any tips on how to write a good readme?
01:54 < mikolalysenko> like is there a standard style or something for it?
01:54 < Raynos> https://gist.github.com/indexzero/1363524
01:54 < mbalho> mikolalysenko: short version https://gist.github.com/maxogden/5147486#making-a-good-readme
01:55 < mbalho> mikolalysenko: longer version is gonna be part of my Art of Node book, feedback welcome
01:55 < Raynos> I use this template https://github.com/Raynos/ngen/blob/master/templates/colingo/content/README.md
01:55 < Raynos> i actually think testling badge or travis badge in README = win++++
01:55 < mbalho> oh yea totes
01:55 < sorensen> Raynos: you going to nodeconf?
01:56 < Raynos> yes
01:56 < sorensen> wooooo
01:56 < sorensen> you still talk to niftylettuce?
01:56 < mikolalysenko> also, what is the travis.yaml thing I see all over the place (newbie question)
01:56 < Raynos> sorenson: http://www.nodeconf.com/#counselors
01:56 < sorensen> would love to have a drink with you
01:56 < Raynos> miko: its the bullshit file used to configure travis-ci
01:57 < Raynos> sorensen: who are you again? D:
01:57 < AvianFlu> jesusabdullah: look at my github, node-waitpid
01:57 < sorensen> im sorensen
01:57 < sorensen> thats about it
01:57 < sorensen> ;)
01:57 < mbalho> lol
01:57 < mbalho> sorenson on github?
01:57 < Raynos> https://github.com/sorenson :D
01:57 < sorensen> SEN
01:57 < sorensen> https://github.com/sorensen
01:57 < mbalho> sweet
01:58 < sorensen> i do things
01:58 < sorensen> nothing really historic
01:58 < Raynos> does anyone actually know how to do pure functional GUIs?
01:58 < AvianFlu> jesusabdullah: that lib is a bit of a sin, but if you've got a specific purpose in mind it works fine
01:59 < sorensen> seems like an oxymoron
02:00 < dominictarr> Raynos: I read this interesting article once, where this guy described rewriting classic arcade games in haskell
02:00 < sorensen> Raynos: dont really understand the problem
02:00 < Raynos> the problem is performance and non-mutation
02:00 < sorensen> theres no reason that you cant write it in a purely functional mannor
02:00 < mikolalysenko> I don't see the point in writing everything in haskell, especially if it just makes you write more code that runs slower
02:00 < dominictarr> http://prog21.dadgum.com/23.html
02:01 < mikolalysenko> but lots of people like it, so maybe there is something to it that I don't get it
02:01 < sorensen> dominictarr: would you mind giving me your thougths on something?
02:01 < sorensen> i saw your config module for node
02:01 < dominictarr> sorensen: sure
02:02 < dominictarr> rc?
02:02 < sorensen> wanted to know what you thought about mine: https://github.com/sorensen/configs
02:02 < sorensen> yes
02:02 < Raynos> sorensen: but its slow ;_;
02:02 < sorensen> Raynos: functional?
02:02 < Raynos> not doing mutation is slow
02:02 < Raynos> and it rapes the GC
02:03 < sorensen> what environment are we talking about
02:03 < sorensen> C#?
02:03 < dominictarr> sorensen: no offence, but configuration is not a problem that I ever want to think about again
02:03 < sorensen> :P
02:03 < substack> isaacs: https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/5132#issuecomment-15436824
02:03 < sorensen> dominictarr: no worries
02:04 < dominictarr> at a previous job, there was a bunch of config code that was slightly different in each project
02:05 < dominictarr> it was a huge wast of time to read it each time you switched projects
02:05 < sorensen> i think we've all been there
02:05 < sorensen> i was more curious about the general OS level structure vs. app dir level configs
02:05 < dominictarr> yeah, so you need to be able to load config from options, envvars, and files -- which must be placed in several standard places
02:06 < dominictarr> or the path to the file can be passed in as an option
02:06 < dominictarr> and thats it
02:06 < dominictarr> sorensen: so, have a .appname/config.json or .appnamerc
02:06 < dominictarr> in your home dir
02:07 < dominictarr> or /etc/appname
02:07 < sorensen> i like the approach the project takes
02:07 < sorensen> very much so a linux way of doing things
02:07 < dominictarr> yes, and thanks to some prs it does a fairly sensible default on windows too
02:08 < sorensen> nice
02:08 < Raynos> sorensen: JS of course
02:08 < sorensen> i saw yours and thought mine a good compliment
02:09 < sorensen> system lvl vs project lvl
02:09 < dominictarr> sorensen: the other option is to put a config in the project… but you can make that an option you pass to the start command
02:09 < sorensen> tbh on a bigger project i would probably use RC
02:10 < sorensen> for the most part though its so simple i'd just rather require a `require('config')
02:10 < sorensen> and have it done with
02:10 < dominictarr> sorensen: yeah, mostly for a project level stuff i just pass in defaults in the code
02:10 < sorensen> yeah
02:10 < dominictarr> yes exactly
02:10 < sorensen> i tried to fill the middle ground
02:10 < dominictarr> Raynos: http://prog21.dadgum.com/23.html
02:10 < Raynos> im looking into https://github.com/drcode/webfui
02:10 < Raynos> to steal their ideas
02:10 < Raynos> STEAL OTHER PEOPLES IDEAS
02:10 < LOUDBOT> LET IT BE KNOWN I'M A WAHYA
02:11 < Raynos> RE IMPLEMENT THEM IN JS
02:11 < LOUDBOT> WHY DO MARRIED GET DRESSED IN WHITE? IT MATCHES THE KITCHEN APPLIANCES!
02:11 < Raynos> WELCOME TO WEB DEVELOPMENT
02:11 < LOUDBOT> OPENING THE SMALL MAILBOX REVEALS A LEAFLET.
02:11 < sorensen> heh
02:12 < Raynos> so the reason I focus on performance is
02:12 < Raynos> that every web app I ever build
02:12 < sorensen> Raynos: functional it what it is, it has a place for sure, but if you find yourself surpassing that place and wondering how to go back to it, it probably isnt for you
02:12 < Raynos> required 3 seconds to render shit
02:13 < sorensen> or if you'd rather repeat some code for the sake of functional programming then go for it
02:13 < sorensen> i would repeat code if it meant performence
02:13 < Raynos> https://github.com/drcode/webfui#a-simple-webfui-app
02:13 < Raynos> usage of numbers
02:13 < sorensen> how about this
02:13 < sorensen> heres my last project: https://www.genoglyphix.com/browser/18/1/212100000/234600000/
02:13 < Raynos> in that example
02:13 < wolfeidau> Raynos: GWT the next generation?
02:13 < Raynos> is win
02:14 < sorensen> my last app is win
02:14 < sorensen> even if i dont know what it does
02:14 < wolfeidau> sorensen: I like the alt key thing
02:14 < sorensen> functional programming? doesnt matter
02:14 < sorensen> ;)
02:15 < sorensen> in the public version its only 400k points of data
02:15 < dominictarr> sorensen: what does your app do?
02:15 < sorensen> private version is 10x as much
02:15 < sorensen> its a genomic data browser
02:15 < wolfeidau> sorensen: Seriously small stuff like that makes a big difference to frequent users
02:16 < sorensen> thanks
02:16 < sorensen> i take a great deal of pride in that app
02:16 < sorensen> even though its my last employer
02:16 < wolfeidau> sorensen: Is the graph area SVG?
02:16 < sorensen> cnavas
02:16 < sorensen> canvas
02:16 < sorensen> svg is too slow
02:16 < sorensen> kills chorme due to too many dom elements
02:17 < sorensen> have been meaning to write a blog post about the trageties of chrome and the dom
02:17 < sorensen> but yes, chrome will choke at X number of dom elements
02:17 < wolfeidau> sorensen: Interesting, hell yeah not enough good articles posted about the guts of that stuff
02:18 < wolfeidau> Data vis is an art in itself
02:20 < sorensen> i wrote the same app  this order, Raphael, pure SVG, pure DOM, canvas
02:20 < sorensen> the rarity is that my problem is not the majorities
02:20 < sorensen> i rendered 100k+ elements at any given time
02:20 < sorensen> most people dont do that
02:20 < sorensen> so the real issue is, do you want to render  > 10k elements at a time? or do you want 100k+ elements to render fast
02:20 < sorensen> that it is
02:20 < jesusabdullah> AvianFlu: dubious needs? yes please
02:20 < sorensen> when you get to donuts and such theres no reason not to use SVG and things like D3
02:21 < sorensen> thats what.... 4 elements?
02:21 < AvianFlu> jesusabdullah: like I said, it should work fine
02:21 < jesusabdullah> AvianFlu: also watching the dr whos with the ponds
02:21 < AvianFlu> but like, you know, sync exec inside a request handler will ruin your day, etc.
02:21 < jesusabdullah> AvianFlu: got through the one with the house
02:21 < jesusabdullah> AvianFlu: interesting.
02:21 < jesusabdullah> AvianFlu: or rather the one where the tardis is a woman
02:22 < AvianFlu> yeahlol
02:22 < AvianFlu> that's actually my favorite episode
02:22 < nk109> neil gaimen wrote that episode
02:22 < jesusabdullah> oh yeah?
02:22 < jesusabdullah> interesting
02:22 < jesusabdullah> I think my fave so far is still the one with david tennant where they meet the devil
02:22 < AvianFlu> "she's a woman... and she's my tardis.  She's a woman... and she's my tardis!" "Did you wish reeeeallly hard?"
02:23 < jesusabdullah> hahaha
02:23 < jesusabdullah> that was a good line
02:23 < jesusabdullah> so I noticed something
02:23 < jesusabdullah> scottish accents have a non-rhotic r
02:23 < jesusabdullah> similar to ours
02:23 < AvianFlu> yep
02:23 < jesusabdullah> :)
02:23 < substack> a rhotic r you mean?
02:24 < substack> american accents except for boston and some coastal southern accents are rhotic
02:24 < jesusabdullah> substack: yes
02:24 < jesusabdullah> substack: "the doctah" vs "the docter"
02:27 < Raynos> People in #clojure are telling me functional GUIs are an open research problem
02:27 < Raynos> which I think is their way of saying stop using functional GUIs in productions
02:27 < substack> haha
02:30 < Raynos> HOW HARD CAN THIS BE >:(
02:30 < LOUDBOT> I AM CLEARLY MISSING HILARITY AND EXCITEMENT.
02:31 < jesusabdullah> lulz
02:31 < jesusabdullah> imo guis are an open research problem
02:31 < jesusabdullah> in general
02:32 < jesusabdullah> AvianFlu: how do you get/control stdin/stdout/etc on that waitpid?
02:32 < jesusabdullah> AvianFlu: ie, I want to see what the child is printing
02:33 < AvianFlu> let me see if I have some example code
02:34 < jesusabdullah> thanks
02:35 < AvianFlu> jesusabdullah: just spawn with 'inherit' for stdio
02:35 < AvianFlu> and it'll just write where it needs to
02:35 < jesusabdullah> AvianFlu: gist?
02:37 < AvianFlu> jesusabdullah: https://gist.github.com/AvianFlu/575117a3322f87d4a19d
02:40 < AvianFlu> jesusabdullah: beware of using anything besides fs.openSync and an fd number to redirect, though
02:40 < AvianFlu> expecting your parent process to do anything while that's running... it won't work out for you
02:40 < AvianFlu> oh wait, that's the wrong file I linked
02:44 < AvianFlu> jesusabdullah: updated the gist
02:46 < Raynos> WININING https://twitter.com/FakeAlexRussell/status/316378097534500865
02:56 < substack> what is the name of that webkit module?
02:56 < substack> the rather recent one
02:58 < substack> was it https://github.com/wearefractal/pane ?
02:59 < Raynos> oh ehm,
02:59 < Raynos> not pane
03:00 < Raynos> substack: https://github.com/deanmao/node-chimera !!
03:00 < substack> or https://github.com/rogerwang/node-webkit /
03:00 < substack> ?
03:01 < substack> I want non-headless
03:01 < substack> node-webkit isn't on npm -_-
03:02 < Raynos> oh
03:02 < Raynos> well for webkit eithre node-webkit or appjs
03:02 < Raynos> oh hijinx did somethign!
03:02 < Raynos> https://github.com/hij1nx/node-chrome !
03:02 < substack> that's what I was thinking of
03:03 < substack> I feel like building a native terminal app with html and node
03:03 < substack> already figured out a lot of the hard parts of that writing shux
03:03 < substack> and I want something I can set the background image with for demos
03:14 < dominictarr> substack: I will use it!
03:23 < jesusabdullah> AvianFlu: thank you
03:26 < Raynos> Benvie: ping
03:26 < Raynos> Benvie: blink blink blink
03:28 < rvagg> I've been using appjs for morkdown (markdown editor/previewer), but it's not supporting 0.10 yet
03:37 < Raynos> MAWKDAWN
03:56 < substack> I'm just settling on google-chrome --app=file://$PWD/test.html
03:56 < substack> seems to work better than these modules
04:08 < defunctzombie> substack: for chrome apps I just use browserify to make the js bundles and that is it
04:08 < defunctzombie> substack: you don't need to do anything else special
04:08 < substack> the biggest thing was just figuring out how to hide the browser decoration
04:08 < substack> which --app= does
04:09 < defunctzombie> substack: yep
04:09 < defunctzombie> substack: or you can just install it as an extension
04:09 < defunctzombie> substack: which gets you an icon to launch it and such
04:10 < defunctzombie> --app is the same thing iirc just for quicker testing
04:10 < defunctzombie> https://github.com/shtylman/eyersee
04:10 < substack> I want to distribute this with npm so I'm not worried about icons
04:10 < defunctzombie> ah
04:36 < substack> browserify error messages fixed: https://gist.github.com/substack/5243156
04:50 < defunctzombie> substack: cool
04:50 < defunctzombie> substack: you should check out the smart bundle patch at some point
04:50 < defunctzombie> substack: I am using that fork in enchilada
04:53 < substack> k
04:53 < defunctzombie> substack: it brings all the bundles to the yard, and they're like.. hey, ive already bundled that
04:54 < substack> that makes sense
04:55 < substack> ok this looks fine
04:56 < substack> defunctzombie: can you update the readme real quick?
04:56 < substack> then I'll merge it
05:00 < defunctzombie> substack: I dunno if it is fine
05:00 < defunctzombie> substack: cause I kinda just made a ghetto property to expose it
05:00 < defunctzombie> substack: wasn't really sure if there was a better way or whatnot
05:01 < substack> I don't really care so long as it passes the tests
05:01 < defunctzombie> haha
05:01 < defunctzombie> yes, and it also adds another test to check for the behavior
05:01 < substack> which is why I'm not worried about it
05:02 < substack> I can always refactor later if tests have my back
05:05 < defunctzombie> damn straight
05:05 < defunctzombie> I feel like that should be a meme or something
05:11 < Raynos> I started playing with the idea of using an immutable data structure thing ( https://gist.github.com/Raynos/5243195 )
05:11 < Raynos> not sure whether thats a good idea or a disaster idea
05:11 < defunctzombie> sure are a lot of return statements hahaha
05:12 < Raynos> RETURN ALL THE THINGS
05:12 < LOUDBOT> IS THE MISOGYNIST KNOWN AS KEV SPEWING LOUDS
05:12 < Raynos> defunctzombie: this is why languages should implicit return :p
05:12 < defunctzombie> haha
05:12 < Raynos> why would you have a function that doesn't return anything ಠ_ಠ
05:12 < defunctzombie> I dunno
05:12 < Raynos> void lol_side_effect(int)
05:13 < defunctzombie> I like explicit return tho :/
05:13 < defunctzombie> or maybe I don't
05:13 < defunctzombie> I like the clarify
05:13 < Raynos> i dont care about JS syntax
05:13 < defunctzombie> *clarity
05:13 < Raynos> little I can do about it
05:13 < Raynos> anyway I'm wondering whether the Immutable thing is unnecessary complex
05:13 < Raynos> or whether it's a good thing (TM)
05:13 < defunctzombie> everything is unnecessaryily complex until it isn't
05:14 < Raynos> well I'll eventually need it for performance
05:14 < Raynos> but I wonder whether I should use it in my examples
05:14 < defunctzombie> my node shirt arrived today :)
05:14 < Raynos> as the "recommended way"
05:14 < Raynos> Mine too!
05:14 < Raynos> node on & keep calm
05:14 < defunctzombie> yep
05:48 < Raynos> I hate american banks
05:48 < Raynos> they make me raeg
05:49 < Raynos> i just tried to pay online
05:49 < Raynos> and was called up and thrown into a conference call with the bank and the company
05:49 < Raynos> and im like what the fuck
06:05 < substack> Raynos: hopefully bitcoins kill them
06:05 < Raynos> KILL ALL THE THINGS
06:05 < LOUDBOT> IMMA LET YOU FINISH BUT I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT I'M ON A BOAT MOTHERFUCKA
06:05 < Raynos> substack: I forgot that with bitcoins i dont need no fucking banks
06:05 < Raynos> how / where I store bitcoins?
06:06 < Raynos> on joyent? xd
06:17 < jesusabdullah> Raynos: in The Grid
06:17 < jesusabdullah> Raynos: it's weird
06:21 < defunctzombie> Raynos: welcome to bitcoin
06:21 < defunctzombie> Raynos: I recommend blockchain.info to get started playing around
06:21 < defunctzombie> Raynos: you can hold your own wallet on your computer if you want tho
06:22  * defunctzombie is working on some js libs to make bitcoin transfers easier without trusting third parties
07:26 < substack> standalone mode in 2.8.0 https://github.com/substack/node-browserify/pull/352
08:54 < juliangruber> substack: substack.net is down
08:55 < substack> server restarted
08:55 < substack> thanks
08:57 < substack> ack up
08:57 < substack> s/^/b
10:37 < dominictarr> juliangruber: hey whats up?
11:07 < juliangruber> dominictarr: hey mate
11:07 < dominictarr> hey whats up
11:08 < juliangruber> just came out of a meeting
11:08 < juliangruber> and yourself?
11:08 < dominictarr> I'm working on a PR for level-store
11:08 < juliangruber> awesome!
11:09 < dominictarr> there is two features it needs: chunklength - and hashes
11:09 < juliangruber> I saw the issues but didn't really have time to think about theme
11:09 < juliangruber> using the chunk number instead of timestamps is a no brainer
11:10 < juliangruber> I don't think there's real need for timestamps, you just want to resume from the last ID you received
11:16 < rvagg> guys, do you know the name of the hotel we're staying at in Dublin?
11:23 < dominictarr> rvagg: exchequer, i believe
11:23 < rvagg> dominictarr: thanks, I just need to know where to head when I land
11:24 < dominictarr> when do you arrive?
11:24 < rvagg> thursday midday
11:24 < rvagg> leaving home in about 12 hours
11:25 < dominictarr> what time do you arrive?
11:27 < rvagg> 12:00
11:27 < rvagg> 28 Mar
11:48 < rvagg> shutting down here, catch you over there
11:51 < dominictarr> rvagg: is that 12:00 noon, or 12 midnight?
11:51 < dominictarr> oh, you said already
11:51 < dominictarr> see you thursday!
11:59 < substack> dominictarr: ok this standalone terminal works
12:00 < dominictarr> npm pub!
12:00 < substack> cleaning it up and publishing pretty soon
12:00 < dominictarr> substack: did you use appjs or node-webkit?
12:01 < substack> I just used google-chrome --app=...
12:01 < dominictarr> and then you run a server?
12:02 < substack> yep
12:02 < substack> but the bin script will handle all of this
12:02 < dominictarr> that is pretty good also, actually, because you can have a terminal in browser tabs
12:02 < dominictarr> and use it on web servers too
12:03 < substack> and I'm using shux so you get multiplexing by default
12:04 < dominictarr> it will be easy to add multiple panes and stuff too
12:05 < substack> it's just html
12:05 < dominictarr> and shoe, i presume?
12:06 < substack> yep
12:48 < substack> https://github.com/substack/exterminate
12:48 < substack> dominictarr: ^^
12:49 < dominictarr> what port does it use by default?
12:50 < dominictarr> on port 0 ?
12:51 < substack> 0 yes
12:51 < substack> it's on the fly
12:51 < dominictarr> does that mean pick a port?
12:51 < substack> yes
12:52 < substack> the operating system picks an available port
12:52 < substack> the port doesn't matter, you just type `exterminate` then it works
12:53 < tanepiper> substack:
12:53 < tanepiper> ─○ exterminate
12:53 < tanepiper> events.js:72
12:53 < tanepiper>         throw er; // Unhandled 'error' event
12:53 < tanepiper>               ^
12:53 < tanepiper> Error: spawn ENOENT
12:53 < tanepiper>     at errnoException (child_process.js:945:11)
12:53 < tanepiper>     at Process.ChildProcess._handle.onexit (child_process.js:736:34)
12:54 < substack> tanepiper: do you have `google-chrome` in your $PATH?
12:55 < tanepiper> oh i thought I had >:|
12:56 < dominictarr> substack: this is AWESOME!
12:57 < dominictarr> there is no cursor, though
12:57 < substack> yes
12:57 < substack> working on that
12:57 < tanepiper> that's because OSX it's /Applications/Google\ Chrome.app/Contents/MacOS/Google\ Chrome
12:58 < tanepiper> but I can symlink it!
12:58 < substack> tanepiper: want to send me a pull req to detect how osx exposes that bin?
12:58 < substack> I was thinking of using the `which` module for this
12:58 < substack> on npm
12:59 < tanepiper> hmm, symlinking it doesn't seem to work :/
13:02 < tanepiper> it does find (AFAIK( it but it doesn't launch an actual window
13:03 < dominictarr> substack https://github.com/substack/exterminate/pull/1
13:07 < dominictarr> substack: tanepiper I'm running it in the browser. works well
13:07 < dominictarr> tanepiper: see my branch to make it start on a specific port, so you can just run it where you like
13:09 < substack> ok merged
13:10 < substack> it needs to compute the width to resize the terminal to the full geometry size
13:10 < substack> need to compute the size of each character of text or something
13:11 < dominictarr> it already wraps correctly
13:12 < dominictarr> oh, hang on
13:12 < substack> not for me
13:12 < substack> it's just 80x25
13:12 < dominictarr> no… sorry, it doesn't
13:13 < dominictarr> there is some reason that detecting the width of the screen is very qwerky
13:15 < dominictarr> oh, no… it's easy
13:15 < substack> it's not doing any detection
13:15 < substack> can check the window.innerWidth and window.innerHeight
13:15 < substack> but then you've got to go from that to the text size
13:15 < dominictarr> var d = document.createElement('div')
13:15 < dominictarr> window.onresize = function () { console.log(d.clientWidth)}
13:15 < dominictarr> function () { console.log(d.clientWidth)}
13:15 < substack> to get the rows and columns
13:15 < dominictarr> oh right
13:16 < dominictarr> or, you could have an invisible element with text and check it's width
13:17 < substack> I was thinking something like that could work
13:18 < substack> I want to use this to make a special escape sequence for showing html
13:18 < substack> then in my presentations I can embed html in my terminal >:D
13:19 < dominictarr> the other problem is that copy-paste doesn't work
13:20 < substack> at least it's pretty hackable
13:20 < dominictarr> I want to have multiple panes… and use this as my main term
13:20 < dominictarr> iterm2 has really nice repositioning… so i'd copy that
13:20 < substack> well shux is already in use
13:21 < substack> so you can open, attach, and reattach multiple forkpty sessions
13:21 < dominictarr> but also… what if you could open a pane that is an Iframe?
13:21 < substack> haha yes
13:21 < dominictarr> then you could have html in that frame
13:22 < dominictarr> would work with http, at least
13:22 < dominictarr> or you have a proxy?
13:22 < dominictarr> and tunnel http over http...
13:23 < substack> could do all kinds of crazy things
13:23 < substack> anyways zzz &
13:23 < dominictarr> night!
13:26  * substack fg
13:26 < substack> haha exterminate was the 26000th package uploaded to npm https://npmjs.org/
13:29 < dominictarr> IT'S A SIGN FROM GOD
13:29 < LOUDBOT> I HAVE TO URINATE
13:32 < substack> dominictarr: https://twitter.com/mykola/status/316541951484772353
13:42 < dominictarr> substack: I got it to work, but I had to pass --user-data-dir=./
13:56 < dominictarr> substack: okay, I got this running just working on osx
14:01 < tanepiper> dominictarr: \o/
14:04 < dominictarr> tanepiper: substack  https://github.com/substack/exterminate/pull/3
14:13 < dominictarr> an entire os based on nodejs and npm feels so close
14:17 < spion> or at least an IDE
14:17  * spion hides
14:17 < pkrumins> cloud9
14:18 < dominictarr> the os is an IDE.
14:18 < dominictarr> unix is an ide for C
14:19 < pkrumins> why c?
14:19 < mikolalysenko> how many npm modules are there exactly?
14:19 < pkrumins> 26000 and a few more
14:19 < dominictarr> it says on npmjs.org
14:19 < pkrumins> Total Packages: 26 005
14:19 < dominictarr> pkrumins: because they made it for c, with c
14:19 < pkrumins> dominictarr: oic
14:19 < pkrumins> hah, oh i c.
14:20 < mikolalysenko> so compared to ruby there are about 1/3 as many node modules
14:21 < mikolalysenko> or # ruby gems ~ 3 * #npm modules
14:21 < pkrumins> ruby has more modules?
14:21 < dominictarr> yes, but the rate of increase is enoumous
14:21 < pkrumins> node will take over relatively soon
14:21 < mikolalysenko> yeah, I think node will overtake by the end of the year
14:21 < dominictarr> when I started node, 2 years ago ruby had 30k
14:22 < pkrumins> and how many ruby has now?
14:22 < dominictarr> and node had 1000
14:22 < pkrumins> haha.
14:22 < mikolalysenko> I remember it was big news when ruby passed cpan
14:22 < mikolalysenko> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/10/12/20/0459240/rubygems-module-count-soon-to-surpass-cpans
14:23 < mikolalysenko> but node should soon shoot right past that
14:23 < mikolalysenko> http://www.modulecounts.com/
14:23 < pkrumins> i never figured out how to publish a ruby, python or perl module
14:23 < pkrumins> they made it fucking impossible
14:24 < mikolalysenko> if you look at the charts, node is currently growing fastest, but ruby has also been speeding up
14:24 < dominictarr> ruby is gonna be hard to beat, actually it's a pretty steep gradient
14:24 < mikolalysenko> I think eventually node will close the gap
14:24 < pkrumins> modulecounts.com is cool
14:25 < mikolalysenko> we are on track to pass cpan in a few weeks
14:25 < mikolalysenko> ruby will be harder though
14:25 < mikolalysenko> probably pypi will fall after that
14:26 < pkrumins> probably? definitely!
14:26 < dominictarr> http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=node.js%2C%20ruby%20on%20rails&cmpt=q
14:26 < pkrumins> wow
14:27 < dominictarr> looks like ruby was all hype, and is tailing now
14:27 < pkrumins> was ror invented in 2005?
14:27 < dominictarr> and look, ror is most searched for in india!
14:28 < pkrumins> 2004 actually
14:28 < pkrumins> wouldnt that be because there are a billion more people?
14:28 < dominictarr> oh, but it's not that strong for node
14:29 < pkrumins> or is that data relative?
14:29 < pkrumins> searches/population
14:29 < pkrumins> unlikely.
14:29 < dominictarr> maybe it's that people are trying to find cut rate rails devs
14:29 < dominictarr> and are recruiting in india
14:29 < pkrumins> that wouldnt explain search being in india
14:30 < pkrumins> oh that would explain it.
14:30 < mikolalysenko> one problem with all of this growth is that it is getting harder to find interesting/useful modules
14:31 < dominictarr> hmm
14:31 < pkrumins> why do you need interesting modules? modules should solve particular problems you've rather be interesting.
14:31 < mikolalysenko> true, but sometimes people look for the wrong thing
14:31 < dominictarr> well, it's not getting harder…
14:31 < dominictarr> it's getting easier,
14:31 < pkrumins> yeah not getting harder.
14:31 < mikolalysenko> I suppose
14:31 < dominictarr> but it's getting harder to find the BEST one
14:32 < mikolalysenko> but looking around in ruby gems, it is difficult to make sense of what is going on (for example)
14:32 < mikolalysenko> like if you want to compare the functionality in ruby gems vs npm, how do you do it?
14:32 < mikolalysenko> a million template engines < 1 useful algorithm
14:32 < pkrumins> just use the most popular ones
14:32 < mikolalysenko> so package counts are not really the whole story
14:32 < isaacs> substack: > rbytes@0.0.2 install /usr/local/lib/node_modules/exterminate/node_modules/shoe/node_modules/sockjs/node_modules/rbytes
14:32 < isaacs> > node-waf configure build
14:32 < isaacs> sh: node-waf: command not found
14:32 < isaacs> npm WARN optional dep failed, continuing rbytes@0.0.2
14:32 < isaacs> substack: rbytes should get on the node-gyp bandwagon
14:36 < dominictarr> is there a js function to get parse a hex string as a number?
14:37 < mikolalysenko> parseInt
14:38 < mikolalysenko> give it 16 as the base
14:38 < mikolalysenko> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/parseInt
14:38 < mikolalysenko> parseInt("01ab", 16)
14:38 < dominictarr> thanks!
14:55 < hij1nx> has anyone done anything with trying to capture network packets without node-pcap?
14:55 < hij1nx> or maybe some kind of hack to wrap net?
14:56 < spion> mikolalysenko, you can try npmsearch (the module) - its my attempt at a better search through npm. demo at http://npmsearch.docucalc.com
14:58 < hij1nx> spion: that seems to work nicely :)
14:59 < spion> (the command line tool is much more tweakable, with importance factors and options for downloads "half-life", update recency etc)
15:00 < spion> hij1nx, thanks :)
15:01 < spion> also worthy if note is that it doesn't rely on middleman severs (it creates a local sqlite db populated directly from the registry)
15:20 < hij1nx> dominictarr: i agree with the sentiment, but it asumes someone is familiar with all your dependencies ;)
15:21 < dominictarr> hij1nx: which sentiment?
15:22 < hij1nx> dominictarr: oh, i was referring to "determining stability'
15:23 < hij1nx> dominictarr: high latency reply ;)
15:23 < dominictarr> oh, right -
15:23 < hij1nx> dominictarr: do you know of any interesting hacks for captruing tcp data without node-pcap?
15:24 < dominictarr> no
15:24 < hij1nx> hrm.
15:24 < hij1nx> thats pretty much the way to do it i guess without an api wrapper or a custom node build
15:25 < hij1nx> or maybe a proxy
15:31 < defunctzombie> substack: https://github.com/shtylman/qr-element#script-tag-users
15:31 < defunctzombie> substack: packaged a standalone for non browserify users using --standalone :)
15:36 < hij1nx> `var fs = require('fs'); // =>` doesnt work ;)
15:36 < Domenic__> standalone is awesome
15:39 < defunctzombie> Domenic__: yea, it will help get some of our modules used by non believers
17:43 < dominictarr> juliangruber: https://github.com/dominictarr/level-peek
17:44 < dominictarr> ^ was surprisingly complex to get right
18:06 < dominictarr> juliangruber: ping?
19:01 < hij1nx> dominictarr: https://github.com/hij1nx/netpeek
19:50 < wolfeidau> hij1nx: Did you figure out your packet problem?
20:49 < jesusabdullah> ttly fixed my phone
21:12 < hij1nx> wolfeidau: partly, i would still like to specify buckets for the bytes that get captured. in particular, i'd like the bytes that get captured to be categorized by the module that produces them
21:20 < wolfeidau> hij1nx: I have been meaning to see if dtrace can track that stuff, it can certainly get to every layer, it is just whether it could associate it with a module located
22:42 < gregwhitworth> "jesusabdullah: sup bro"
22:43 < jesusabdullah> gregwhitworth: there you are
22:43 < jesusabdullah> gregwhitworth: welcome to irc, welcome to the inner sanctum
22:43 < gregwhitworth> "jesusabdullah: LOL, I'm a newb at this, saw the hash tag and thought you were using it for twitter"
22:45 < jesusabdullah> gregwhitworth: if you want to be legit you have to use irc
22:45 < jesusabdullah> gregwhitworth: drop the quotes brah
22:46 < gregwhitworth> jesusabdullah There we go
22:47 < jesusabdullah> indeed
22:47 < gregwhitworth> jesusabdullah: So what was up with the Anchorage thing, did you use to live up this way?
22:47 < jesusabdullah> gregwhitworth: born and raised Alaskan, off Arctic and 36th right now
22:48 < jesusabdullah> gregwhitworth: Anchorage is a relatively small town
22:48 < gregwhitworth> jesusabdullah: yeah
22:48 < jesusabdullah> gregwhitworth: but Anchorage desires to be something more
22:48 < jesusabdullah> gregwhitworth: I call Anchorage the "me too" city
22:48 < gregwhitworth> jesusabdullah: LOL. Basically a suburb or Portland or Seattle IMO
22:48 < jesusabdullah> exactly
22:49 < jesusabdullah> well, actually no
22:49 < jesusabdullah> people say that but having been to Seattle and Portland, no
22:49 < gregwhitworth> jesusabdullah: I like Portland myself
22:49 < jesusabdullah> anyways, Anchorage is like that 14 year old kid that invites itself to the "big kid parties"
22:49 < gregwhitworth> jesusabdullah: But then again I was only visiting
22:49 < jesusabdullah> "we can have a tech industry!"
22:50 < gregwhitworth> jesusabdullah: You mean like silicon valley or just the service of them?
22:50 < jesusabdullah> In general. Anchorage wants to be metropolitan.
22:50 < gregwhitworth> jesusabdullah: You are probably referring to silicon valley type tech scene, which is laughable at best
22:50 < jesusabdullah> That includes aspects of having a tech industry similar to other larger cities
22:51 < gregwhitworth> jesusabdullah: embarrassing really
22:51 < jesusabdullah> Not necessarily
22:52 < gregwhitworth> jesusabdullah: I guess it depends to what extent you're referring
22:52 < jesusabdullah> sure
22:53 < gregwhitworth> jesusabdullah: In my mind I am picturing Google unveiling their next big thing at the Captain Cook and it just doesn't quite fit
22:53 < gregwhitworth> Now a getaway hackathon, that would be awesome - up at seven glaciers
22:55 < jesusabdullah> bbl
22:55 < gregwhitworth> Sounds good - I gotta get some work done
22:55 < jesusabdullah> this is going to sound really dickish
22:56 < jesusabdullah> I don't think I like that guy
--- Log closed Wed Mar 27 00:00:29 2013