--- Log opened Sun Oct 07 00:00:13 2012
--- Day changed Sun Oct 07 2012
00:00 < etcetera> what was that node package that watched your current directory and recompiled?
00:00 < dandv> etcetera: https://npmjs.org/package/fs-watch-tree ?
00:00 < etcetera> dandv: no that recompiled your app.
00:00 < dandv> or https://npmjs.org/package/directory-tree-watcher
00:01 < dandv> oh, coffee watcher
00:01 < dandv> https://npmjs.org/browse/keyword/watch
00:04 < etcetera> dandv: https://npmjs.org/package/node-dev
00:04 < ljharb> "compiled" and "javascript". gross.
00:18 < LouisT> ljharb: https://bitbucket.org/LouisT/rps there
00:19 < LouisT> ugly code but the first thing i ever wrote with node.js heh
00:19 < Aartsie> Hi all, i'm trying to compile node.js on my Debian server but when i do make i got the message : make: command not found, what do i wrong ?
00:20 < ljharb> LouisT: nice - youre missing <DOCTYPE html> at the top of your html files
00:20 < ljharb> also, you should use addEventListener instead of inline event handlers
00:21 < LouisT> ljharb: yea i know all this now, like i said, that's the first thing i've ever written
00:21 < ljharb> also .ogg files don't work in every browser: http://caniuse.com/#search=ogg
00:21 < ljharb> gotcha :-)
00:21 < LouisT> which was MONTHS ago
00:21 < LouisT> sometime in 2011
00:22 < LouisT> i might add the doc type and convert the ogg to mp3 and such i guess
00:22 < LouisT> but other than that, it's not really important heh
00:25 < LouisT> oh, ljharb, ogg works in the browsers i care about.. heh
00:25 < ljharb> if it doesn't work on iphone, it doesn't work
00:26 < LouisT> i don't think audio tags even work on ios?
00:26 < LouisT> hm.. they might
00:26 < LouisT> oh it does
00:26 < ljharb> of course they do
00:27 < Aartsie> ljharb: did you compile your nodejs ?
00:27 < ljharb> i recommend soundmanager2.js for dealing with that stuff
00:27 < LouisT> k, i'll have to remember that if i ever use audio again
00:27 < ljharb> Aartsie: i ran configure/make/make install if thats what you mean, but that's compiling c, not compiling javascript.
00:28 < Aartsie> ljharb: yes that is what i mean, when i will make i get the message make: command not found
00:28 < Aartsie> Whats wrong with it ?
00:29 < ljharb> Aartsie: you need to have "gcc" installed. if youre on a mac with mountain lion (or maybe lion) you'll want to install xcode from the mac app store, and then install the command line tools from it
00:29 < Aartsie> its on a debian server 
00:29 < ljharb> ok then yum install gcc or whatever applies
00:30 < Aartsie> ljharb: https://gist.github.com/73cfaa78d7e9598c7d3d
00:30 < Aartsie> ljharb: I already have the gcc packages
00:31 < ljharb> `yum install make`?
00:32 < Aartsie> ljharb: thank you that works ! 
00:32 < Aartsie> since when you have to install make ? :P 
00:33 < ljharb> looks like debian just doesn't include it by default for some reason
00:34 < Aartsie> yeah i think but, you can see in my gist that there are some false values in my configure... is it ok ?
00:37 < ljharb> yes, you don't want to share v8, or ssl, or zlib, with anything else
00:37 < ljharb> don't know about dtrace or etw but i'm sure it's fine
00:37 < Aartsie> ljharb: ok thank you :) 
00:38 < ljharb> np
00:43 < terinjokes> why wouldn't you want to use a shared v8, openssl or zlib?
00:43 < samholmes> How do I run a command in the console from a node script?
00:45 < ljharb> terinjokes: i suppose you could, but then you have to manage those upgrades yourself
00:46 < terinjokes> ljharb: uhm, your package manage would handle that…
00:46 < ljharb> i dunno, i just use the default configure options :-p
00:59 < mscdex> terinjokes: you wouldn't want to necessarily use shared versions of those libraries because node then is not guaranteed to be stable
00:59 < mscdex> and/or not break
01:00 < mscdex> especially when it comes to v8
01:00 < ljharb> there we go, i knew there was a reason
01:04 < qmx> howdy folks!
01:04 < qmx> for auth stuff passport is the way to go?
01:15 < chovy> qmx: every-auth is another popular one.
01:18 < qmx> chovy: thanks, looking now
01:18 < qmx> I'm still getting weird session-related errors with passport
01:21 < chovy> i have not used passport. i rolled my own
01:21 < chovy> whta's the error?
01:24 < qmx> "failed to find request token in session", googling led me to https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/passportjs/I-LnOYE4Szo but none of the suggestions worked
01:25 < Sonderblade> qmx: access your site using 127.0.0.1:1234 instead of localhost:1234
01:25 < qmx> I'm using 127
01:25 < qmx> :)
01:25 < Sonderblade> is it twitter auth?
01:25 < qmx> yup
01:26 < Sonderblade> have you set the callback url?
01:27 < qmx> sure
01:27 < qmx> double-checking everything here
01:28 < Aartsie> do i have to install express for a socket.io app ? 
01:28 < Sonderblade> and website to: http://127.0.0.1:1234?
01:29 < qmx> Sonderblade: found it, misplaced hosts entry
01:29 < lohkey> Aartsie: no
01:29 < qmx> thanks!
01:29  * qmx feels dumb
01:29 < qmx> :)
01:29 < chovy> qmx: i don't know if this could be the problem, but you could use a fake hostname: edit /etc/hosts and point foo.bar to your ip.
01:30 < qmx> chovy: it was something like this, goof from my part, as expected
01:30 < Aartsie> lohkey: https://gist.github.com/855f21b26fc1821251ed When i connect to it with telnet i can send 1 message ( i dont't see it on the server ) and then it kills the connection ?
01:31 < lohkey> something else is wrong then
01:31 < lohkey> do you have anything in front of node?
01:31 < lohkey> do you have multiple instances running?
01:36 < Aartsie> No this is my first code in node :)
01:39 < Aartsie> lohkey: it is very strange, i can connect but i don't receive data on the server, and when it disconnects it give no message
01:55 < mscdex> Aartsie: what code are you using on the clide side?
01:55 < mscdex> *client
01:56 < Aartsie> i got a GPS tracker that push a message to my server 
01:56 < Aartsie> mscdex: my server code is : https://gist.github.com/855f21b26fc1821251ed
01:56 < mscdex> ok, but how is it pushing messages to your server?
01:56 < chrs_> anyone use node for web auth?
01:56 < Aartsie> when i do a telnet connection i can connect to the server but when i send data it won't receive on the server and i will be disconnected
01:56 < chrs_> not user+pass, just pass
01:57 < Aartsie> mscdex: Yes it push messages to my server
01:57 < mscdex> socket.io doesn't handle plain tcp connections
01:57 < mscdex> it works with browser-based and websocket connections
01:57 < Aartsie> ooh.. what can i do to fix that ? 
01:58 < mscdex> Aartsie: if you are just using plain tcp, just use node's built-in net module
01:58 < chovy> how should i start my node app in prod?
01:58 < dandv> syskk, ljharb: re. handlebars' impotency: I can live with testing booleans, but what about swtich/case statements, when I want to test a variable against several values?
01:59 < Aartsie> ok but is that difficult ? i used php before and that was very difficult because i have to create a buffer
01:59 < chovy> I've seen upstart, monit, forever, and supervisor used, not sure which one or combination I should use.
01:59 < Aartsie> mscdex: ^^
01:59 < mscdex> Aartsie: no, it's very easy
02:00 < Aartsie> mscdex: but is it async ? 
02:00 < syskk> dandv: handlebars assume you will do that in your controller, not your view i suppose
02:01 < mscdex> Aartsie: yes, very simple example here: https://gist.github.com/24913cc17d24da867978
02:02 < Aartsie> thank you
02:03 < mscdex> Aartsie: then you can write to the socket with c.write()
02:04 < mscdex> chovy: i use upstart for daemonizing most of my node scripts on ubuntu servers
02:05 < Aartsie> thanx ! 
02:05 < chovy> mscdex: in a nutshell, what is upstart?
02:05 < Aartsie> mscdex: Why when i will listen to 12345 i will get an error ? 
02:06 < mscdex> chovy: it's ubuntu's replacement for sysvinit
02:06 < chovy> will it restart if the app crashes?
02:06 < mscdex> chovy: you can set it up to do that, yes
02:06 < mscdex> Aartsie: what error?
02:08 < Aartsie> mscdex: Thank you it works :) 
02:08 < Aartsie> mscdex: And is this async ? 
02:13 < mscdex> Aartsie: yes, almost everything in node core is async
02:14 < Aartsie> nice !!
02:17 < jmoyers> anyone used handlebars with tj's consolidate for express 3?
02:24 < syskk> let's say i override a method and i want to access the parent's class method, im currently doing this.__proto__.__proto__.beforeFilter();
02:25 < syskk> is there a more elegant way to do it?
02:34 < deltab> syskk: you shouldn't rely on __proto__: that's a non-standard feature
02:35 < deltab> Object.getPrototypeOf is I believe the proper way to do that now
02:36 < trypwire_> hey all. can i ask anyone to help me figure out why my float32array values aren't getting set? https://gist.github.com/3846878
02:36 < trypwire_> "prev" and "next" in that function are themselves float32arrays
02:39 < AAA_awright> syskk: I'd assign the prototype to another method. class.prototype.x = super.prototype.y or something
02:39 < AAA_awright> Otherwise use Object.getPrototypeOf
02:40 < jmoyers> or add a __super helper
02:40 < jmoyers> to your inherits
02:40 < jmoyers> whatever you are using
02:44 < syskk> cool
02:47 < niggler> is there a way in node to set process affinities etc?
02:48 < sinclairzx> niggler: i would have thought this should be set with a hint
02:49 < niggler> you can set it by tasksetting the main process
02:50 < niggler> but itd be nice not to have to do that
02:50 < sinclairzx> wrap it up
02:52 < niggler> it might need some v8 hacking
02:52 < niggler> does v8 use pthreads?
02:52 < sinclairzx> niggler: sounds reliable
02:52 < sinclairzx> niggler: no idea
02:53 < niggler> so it looks like it uses pthreads / ntpl
02:53 < niggler> does node pull from v8 often (i.e. should a hole be poked in V8)?
02:54 < sinclairzx> niggler: no idea
02:55 < Benvie> __proto__ is part of es6
02:55 < Benvie> standardized
02:57 < jmoyers> sigh @ template engines plus spotty layout support w/ express 3
02:57 < jmoyers> wasted a stupid amount of time fooling around
03:02 < Raynos> jmoyers: ?
03:02 < Raynos> jmoyers: Just look at consolidate
03:02 < jmoyers> i did
03:02 < jmoyers> consolidate helps, but doesn't add features where they dont exist
03:02 < Raynos> what features would you need :/
03:03 < Raynos> just use jade 
03:03 < jmoyers> i was looking at handlebars, then mustache, then hogan, then through the retarded coffeescript implementations of partials and layout
03:03 < Raynos> :D
03:03 < jmoyers> jade is not my style
03:03 < Raynos> dont use layout or partials >_>
03:03 < jmoyers> i finally found: https://github.com/artspotter/hog/blob/master/lib/hog.js
03:03 < Raynos> hogan has partial support
03:03 < jmoyers> a SANE implementation, im trying it right now
03:03 < Raynos> hog is for express 2.x
03:04 < jmoyers> balblarararrarrgh
03:04 < jmoyers> haha
03:04 < jmoyers> i mean its not like the end of the world not having layout support
03:04 < jmoyers> just somewhat annoying
03:04 < jmoyers> implementations like this make my fucking eyes bleed: https://github.com/quangv/hulk-hogan/blob/master/hulk.coffee
03:04 < Raynos> dont do that
03:05 < Raynos> personally I just include header and footer
03:05 < Raynos> in all my files
03:05 < Raynos> and then im done
03:05 < jmoyers> right, thats how i used to do it
03:05 < Raynos> well actually
03:05 < jmoyers> before i got to express
03:05 < Raynos> personally I dont use a templating library :P
03:05 < Raynos> i build client-side UIs
03:05 < jmoyers> template engines i've cooked up in the past have had some base variable, like "template" that i used to do the bootstrap header and footer stuff
03:06 < jmoyers> if not attached to mustache, i just like something that looks vaguely like html and doesn't have curly braces
03:06 < jmoyers> ejs started getting on my nerves
03:10 < sinclairzx> jmoyers: i think i like mustache 
03:10 < jmoyers> mustache is fine
03:10 < sinclairzx> jmoyers: yeah
03:11 < jmoyers> i just want partials and layout. but, fuck it, i'll just use hbs or some damn thing
03:11 < sinclairzx> mustache supports partials
03:11 < qmx> heh, passing the same as jmoyers :)
03:13 < sinclairzx> jmoyers: n00b question here
03:13 < jmoyers> wassah
03:13 < syskk> function A() {}; A.addToPrototype(function(name, fn) {this.name = fn;}
03:13 < syskk> is it possible to do something like this?
03:14 < syskk> i mean
03:14 < syskk> A.addToPrototype = function(name, fn) {this.name = fn;}
03:14 < sinclairzx> jmoyers: i wish to make a web request in nodejs, the 'options' are a little weird tho, i wish to simply pass a url. do you know any utility that will normalize the url?
03:14 < syskk> A.addToPrototype = function(name, fn) {this.prototype.name = fn;}
03:14 < jmoyers> like an http client request?
03:14 < sinclairzx> and give me the domain, path, port etc?
03:14 < jmoyers> oh, url parsing?
03:14 < jmoyers> sure there is a built in module
03:15 < sinclairzx> jmoyers: yup, like http client request
03:15 < sinclairzx> jmoyers: there is http, but i don't really like its interface
03:15 < jmoyers> sinclairzx mikeal's request is nice
03:15 < jmoyers> there is also a url parser
03:15 < jmoyers> https://github.com/joyent/node/blob/master/lib/url.js
03:16 < jmoyers> https://github.com/mikeal/request
03:16 < sinclairzx> jmoyers: just the url.js lib looks good :)
03:17 < sinclairzx> jmoyers: i miss the Uri class out of .NET :(
03:17 < jmoyers> sinclairzx http://nodejs.org/api/url.html
03:17 < jmoyers> this has all the same functionality
03:17 < sinclairzx> jmoyers: thanks mate, its perfect
03:19 < sinclairzx> jmoyers: also, one more quick question, what libraries exist for dealing with byte data in node?
03:19 < jmoyers> yes.
03:19 < jmoyers> what kind?
03:19 < jmoyers> https://github.com/substack/node-binary is decent for parsing streams of binary
03:20 < jmoyers> i've also used https://github.com/rmustacc/node-ctype in the past
03:20 < sinclairzx> what's node buffer?
03:20 < sinclairzx> is that useful?
03:20 < jmoyers> node has a buffer implementation
03:20 < jmoyers> yes, its nice on its own
03:20 < jmoyers> node-binary of buffertools or node-ctype have more specific conveniences for parsing things like protocol streams
03:21 < Benvie> notably node's buffer implementation significantly outperforms TypedArrays
03:21 < sinclairzx> jmoyers: i think ill check out NodeBuffer
03:21  * sinclairzx writes his own web stack
03:21 < jmoyers> err, i have no idea what NodeBuffer is
03:21 < jmoyers> the Buffer class is native to node
03:21 < jmoyers> and yes it outperforms, but specifically because it does slab allocation, right?
03:21 < Raynos> sinclairzx: use buffers
03:22 < sinclairzx> Raynos: will do
03:22 < Benvie> slab allocation helps it absolutely destroy typed arrays when measuring constructing new ones
03:22 < jmoyers> there is also a TypedArray implementation that USES node buffers, right?
03:22 < Raynos> sinclairzx: https://github.com/Raynos/routil#small-libraries don't write your own web stack
03:22 < Raynos> look at existing small libraries
03:22 < sinclairzx> Raynos: also, streaming something like a 1gig file through http should be trivial in node right?
03:22 < Raynos> and build on their shoulders
03:22 < Benvie> but it also outperforms in all operations too which is unrelated to that I believe
03:22 < Raynos> sinclairzx: depends\
03:23 < sinclairzx> Raynos: i don't want to use express
03:23 < sinclairzx> Raynos: i typically learn tech by building things on it from scratch anyway
03:23 < Raynos> sinclairzx: I never said use express
03:23 < Raynos> I siad use small libraries
03:23 < Raynos> express is an elephant
03:23 < sinclairzx> Raynos: i only want to use things build directly into node
03:24 < jmoyers> express is fine
03:24 < jmoyers> :P
03:24 < niggler> who is actually working on the node core
03:24 < jmoyers> you minimalist hipster type
03:24 < Benvie> I would guess the performance of Buffer is attributable to it being THE core fundamental concern for Node and has received a corresponding amount of attention 
03:24 < Raynos> sinclairzx: enjoy reinventing every wheel
03:24 < sinclairzx> Raynos: i don't want to use 100's of micro frameworks
03:24 < Raynos> niggler: substack is.
03:24 < Raynos> jmoyers: express is massive.
03:24 < sinclairzx> Raynos: yeah, should be fun
03:25 < jmoyers> sorry, i dont subscribe to the 20 line module craze
03:25 < jmoyers> i think its a fine thing, but im not afraid of express
03:25 < sinclairzx> Raynos: im also building everything in TypeScript 
03:25 < Raynos> sinclairzx: LOL @ TypeScript
03:26 < sinclairzx> Raynos: there's nothing wrong with TS
03:26 < niggler> fuck typescript
03:26 < Raynos> sinclairzx: I wrote my own web stack on node from scratch twice. The first time was a disaster. The second time it was build on many small modules and that's basically what the routil list is
03:26 < Raynos> jmoyers: its not that large modules are bad.
03:27 < Raynos> jmoyers: It's that large module are far more likely to make trade offs that are not suitable to your needs
03:27 < sinclairzx> Raynos: but ive build web stack/frameworks before in many languages and platforms
03:27 < jmoyers> shrug
03:27 < Raynos> express makes trade offs that are not suitable to node. 
03:27 < sinclairzx> Raynos: its not hard
03:27 < Raynos> It murders streams
03:27 < jmoyers> express has a clean api and does the standard things well
03:27 < jmoyers> yes, i am aware of the streaming tradeoff
03:27 < Raynos> sinclairzx: have you done it in C or C++ ?
03:27 < Raynos> if your not doing streams then your not doing node
03:27 < sinclairzx> years ago
03:28 < jmoyers> and when memory management becomes an issue for my internal app, and re-write then 10 web service handlers in a streaming way :P
03:28 < sinclairzx> Raynos: i don't subscribe to everything being streamed 
03:28 < jmoyers> dogma is retarded without reason
03:28 < Raynos> streams are composable.
03:28 < jmoyers> i love streams btw, the event bus architecture i have for the apps core functionality is all streaming
03:29 < sinclairzx> Raynos: least, i don't subscribe to it from a API perspective, and yes, they are composable
03:29 < Benvie> raynos have you done anything with CPS or TCO/trampolines
03:29 < Raynos> im not saying you need to do control flow with streams.
03:29 < Raynos> but all your IO should be streaming
03:29 < Raynos> Benvie: ?
03:29 < jmoyers> so you don't buffer ever eh ;-)?
03:29 < jmoyers> must be a hard life.
03:29 < Raynos> oh I buffer
03:29 < Raynos> a lot.
03:30 < Raynos> but I still use streams
03:30 < Benvie> was just curious, I'm thinking of changing an implementation of something to use a trampoline
03:30 < sinclairzx> Raynos: you stream between disparate node applications?
03:30 < Raynos> sinclairzx: https://github.com/Raynos/chain-stream#example
03:30 < niggler> buffering is annoying
03:30 < jmoyers> buffering is convenient.
03:30 < Raynos> streams are flow control. Everything is a stream ( https://github.com/Raynos/http-stream#example , https://github.com/Raynos/events-stream#example )
03:30 < jmoyers> and dude, thats to much fluent interface for me
03:30 < jmoyers> the 100th chain return of this is too much
03:31 < sinclairzx> Raynos: me also, i don't understand what it's actually doing
03:31 < Raynos> jmoyers: thats because its a stupid example that shows everything in one go.
03:31 < Raynos> but I write crazy code >_>
03:31 < Raynos> I'm just as bad as Benvie & gozala
03:31 < jmoyers> crazy code is hard to read
03:31 < gabrieluk> if i want to add real time date in my express app, what should i use?
03:31 < sinclairzx> Raynos: you would probably enjoy programming modern graphics cards
03:32 < Benvie> over the last few days I wrote a js interpreter that uses CPS, so code written normally can be executed asynchronously, or paused and rewound, or all state serialized and saved
03:32 < Raynos> Benvie: whats the diference between CPS & trampolines
03:32 < jmoyers> i've had to inherit too much fucked up shit in my career to write mind melting functional transforms
03:32 < Benvie> CPS needs trampolines, or cheats using setTimeout
03:32 < Benvie> to drop the stack
03:32 < Raynos> Benvie: that's a nice toy but bad for maintainability.
03:32 < Benvie> right now I just dump the stack every 100 or so frames deep
03:33 < Raynos> callbacks are nice because they are incredibly explicit
03:33 < Raynos> Benvie: Do you have any tools for crazy live editing environments?
03:33  * jmoyers wants to start a flame war
03:33 < jmoyers> i love await, screw callbacks!
03:33 < Benvie> I developed this primarily with the intention of using it as a sandbox to deeply introspect code as you develop it in your dev environment
03:33 < Benvie> not so much for use in live code
03:33 < Raynos> Benvie: do you use esprima and if not why not?
03:33  * jmoyers kids, he kids
03:33 < Benvie> yeah
03:34 < Benvie> it executes the parser API AST
03:34 < Raynos> Benvie: you dont need deep introspection. The hardest problem is visualizing streams
03:34 < Raynos> I need to visualize how data comes in, gets transformed and leaves my process
03:34 < Benvie> which of course doesn't help if you're not using streams
03:34 < Raynos> I also need to visualize the current global state of the application
03:34 < Benvie> like say you're writing a gui
03:34 < Raynos> Benvie: A gui is a stream
03:34 < Benvie> yeah but that's what this does
03:35 < Raynos> streaming input DOM events, streaming DOM manipulation as output
03:35 < Benvie> instead of variables being hidden in an invisible variable record in callbacks
03:35 < Raynos> the rest is manipulation of streams
03:35 < Benvie> you can see the variable record like any other object'
03:35 < Benvie> you can see where the declarations are
03:35 < Raynos> Benvie: You mean the local scope object?
03:35 < Benvie> yes
03:35 < sinclairzx> Raynos: im really enjoying TS btw, have you had a chance to play around with it yet?
03:35 < Benvie> more fine grained
03:35 < jmoyers> you are in the like the 3rd ring of hell
03:35 < Benvie> block level scoping to support let
03:35 < Raynos> sinclairzx: TypeScript is a nice idea. I wont use it until I have a tool that supports it and runs on linux
03:35 < Raynos> I also hate compile to X languages
03:36 < sinclairzx> VIM works i think
03:36 < jmoyers> when you see the world in your favorite abstraction, every problem boils down to that abstraction ;-)
03:36 < sinclairzx> to what degree, im not sure
03:36 < Raynos> I wouldnt mind bullying the TypeScript team into solving the hard problem of making TypeScript work with pure JS and external type annotation files
03:36 < Benvie> I implemented a full js runtime, on top of js. Kind of like narcissus
03:36 < Benvie> but not as...arcane
03:36 < Raynos> jmoyers: It does. It's the best
03:36 < sinclairzx> jmoyers: that is very true
03:36 < Raynos> Benvie: is it your career or hobby to build tooling?
03:37 < Benvie> no one pays me to sadly
03:37 < Raynos> Benvie: when your in SF we should have lunch.
03:37 < Raynos> im sure you'll come down here at some point next year 
03:37 < Benvie> I do client work the minimum amount I need to in order to not work for months at a time
03:37 < Benvie> so I can do this stuff
03:38 < Benvie> https://github.com/Benvie/js-astify/blob/master/lib/interpretor.js
03:38 < Benvie> you can do
03:38 < Raynos> Benvie: What do you think about light table and using it to build tools on top of it?
03:38 < Benvie> var x = new Interpretor; x.execute('var x = n => n * 3; [1,2,4,5].map(x)')
03:39 < Benvie> and you can see all the scope objects, and the global scope, and the completion value, etc.
03:39 < Benvie> that is exactly what I want to build
03:39 < Benvie> that's what the carrot I've been chasing with all these related things
03:39 < Benvie> to give full depth and breadht to the code your write as you write it
03:40 < Raynos> Benvie: You want to build light table?
03:40 < Benvie> to see options side by side based on the code, to see the visual representation of it in a way that's useful for comprehension
03:40 < Raynos> well theres two things
03:40 < Benvie> something like it
03:40 < Raynos> there is visualization
03:40 < Raynos> and then there is static analysis
03:40 < Benvie> yeah
03:41 < Raynos> visualization for debugging
03:41 < Raynos> and static analysis for code understanding
03:41 < Raynos> I still havn't found a solid way to get docs in my editor for shit
03:41 < Raynos> nor a solid way to discover npm modules
03:41 < Benvie> http://worrydream.com/LearnableProgramming/ says that visualization is as much part of the process of creating as it is for analysis
03:42 < Benvie> or it should be, but it's hard to do
03:42 < Benvie> it is for me
03:42 < Benvie> this is why UltraREPL exists and a dozen things I've made related
03:43 < Benvie> I did in a repl half the time just pouring over stuff like a giant box of legos
03:43 < Raynos> Benvie: UltraREPL isn't as useful as I wanted :(
03:43 < Raynos> I did a little REPL hack
03:43 < Benvie> the console is limited
03:43 < Raynos> to spawn up a REPL and load a file into it
03:43 < Benvie> I started building the next generation of it
03:43 < Raynos> so I can play with local tokens
03:44 < Benvie> ultra repl has a lot of features that do a lot of thigns that one one knows how to use
03:44 < Benvie> .load ./filename.js
03:44 < Raynos> that doesnt handle file local requires
03:44 < Raynos> if its anything like node's REPL's .load
03:45 < Benvie> it's not but I don't think it does what you're saying either
03:46 < Benvie> if (!params) params = this.context.current.locals.__filename;
03:46 < Benvie> so if you were to do
03:46 < Benvie> __filename = '/dev/whatever.js'
03:47 < Benvie> it defaults to a folder in the ultra-repl location, and each context saves to a corresponding file
03:47 < Benvie> so you'd end up with alpha.js, beta.js in ./ultra-repl/library
03:47 < Benvie> var code = this.context.current.getExecutedCode(); file.write(code);
03:49 < Benvie> but I started building a version using appjs that has configurable pannels, with draggable splitters, maximizable panels, etc.
03:50 < Benvie> this I want to build out into a full editor with integration of live code interpretation and analysis and introspection
03:51 < Benvie> think like a code editor where each bit of code can be moused over and clicked on to expand information, replace with similar code, or executed in place 
03:52 < Raynos> Benvie: I should use appjs at some point
03:52 < Benvie> it's quite useful to have the APIs from node and chrome together
03:53 < Benvie> like I use node's require system but extended out to run in chrome for requiring stuff, without having to build or use browserfy or whatever
03:54 < viktor_> hi!
03:54 < Benvie> http://bbenvie.com/img/devenv2.png you can see the echos of ultra-repl in it
03:54 < Benvie> but hey the mouse does stuff too
03:55 < dandv> how does appjs compare with meteor?
03:55 < Benvie> not similar
03:55 < mhr> dandv, they're unrelated
03:56 < Benvie> appjs is a node module that exposes chromeless chrome browser contexts
03:56 < Benvie> on the desktop
03:56 < dandv> "Open Source , event driven framework for building rich applications within an ECMAScript compliant environment including Web Browsers and V8 on the server." ? -- https://twitter.com/AppsJS
03:56 < dandv> oh, that's appSjs
03:56 < aMoniker> Is there a good library for doing basic server-side pubsub?
03:57 < jmoyers> more apt comparison
03:57 < jmoyers> is appjs and node-webkit
03:58 < Raynos> Benvie: how do you plan to do it without build or browserify?
03:58 < Raynos> aMoniker: mediator
03:59 < Raynos> Benvie: I find massive objects hard to read
03:59 < Raynos> Benvie: I can't visualize how watching the state of a large object with many nested properties helps me understand a program
04:04 < Benvie> yeah I agree
04:04 < Benvie> that's just an initial stab but not the desired goal
04:04 < Benvie> appjs provides direct access between objects in node and the DOM
04:05 < Benvie> and even includes a require-in-browser built in functionality
04:06 < Benvie> which integrates with the existing node module system but adds the ability to compile in the browser context when desired (while still being a "normal" node module capable of having parent modules that were run in node)
04:06 < Raynos> Benvie: I should play with appJS
04:07 < Benvie> so I simply have my index.js which loads appjs, then I do window.require('./browser-main') or whatever 
04:07 < Benvie> which is organized like a node module but interacts with DOM apis
04:07 < Benvie> and has the window as its global object
04:07 < jmoyers> you have to use path.join these days to maintain windows support re: delimeters, correct?
04:08 < Benvie> https://github.com/Benvie/metaspect/blob/master/data/index.js is an example of this
04:08 < zezikaro> hi does anyone know how to install phatomjs or zombie js or anything like that on windows?
04:08 < zezikaro> I keep getting exceptions of 
04:08 < zezikaro> npm ERR! `cmd "/c" "
04:08 < zezikaro> etc
04:08 < Benvie> this file is the main browser module
04:08 < zezikaro> could anyone help me please
04:09 < Benvie> for that project I mean
04:10  * sinclairzx wonders if microsoft will release a nodejs web stack
04:11 < sinclairzx> that would be awesome
04:11 < Raynos> Benvie: https://github.com/Raynos/browserify-server/tree/master/example
04:11 < sinclairzx> ASP.NODE
04:11 < Raynos> I've been using browserify-server as a static file server with browserify recompilation on file watch instead
04:11 < jmoyers> heh
04:11 < jmoyers> kind of counter node community if you ask me
04:11 < sinclairzx> community is overrated
04:11 < Benvie> yeah the end result looks like similar code
04:12 < Benvie> node require semantics next to document.body
04:12 < Benvie> browserify works on the web, but has to go the extra mile to fake it
04:13 < Benvie> appjs brings the web to node but of course you won't be building things in it that live on the web generally
04:13 < gabrieluk> i'm trying to figure it out how to use this https://github.com/JerrySievert/node-date-utils . it says: $ npm install date-utils than require('date-utils');. ok, that is fine, i know where require('date-utils'); goes, but where am i supossed to insrt those methods such as Date.today();?
04:14 < Raynos> chjj: ping
04:14 < Raynos> sinclairzx: you kidding me?
04:15 < Raynos> You want to do it manually raw to the metal
04:15 < Raynos> and then your asking for a bloated fully microsoft integrated framework?
04:15 < sinclairzx> Raynos: that would be ace
04:15 < Raynos> sinclairzx: http://ayende.com/blog/72705/node-cs
04:16  * sinclairzx adds it to the TS feature request
04:16 < sinclairzx> Raynos: yup, the TPL is ace
04:21 < syskk> can anyone help me with this: https://gist.github.com/3847096 ?
04:21 < syskk> i think there's something i dont get with prototypes
04:21 < syskk> see expected output at bottom
04:24 < jmoyers> syskk are you writing node specific code
04:24 < syskk> not in this case
04:25 < jmoyers> well
04:26 < jmoyers> you can look at two things
04:26 < jmoyers> https://github.com/joyent/node/blob/master/lib/util.js#L525-548
04:26 < jmoyers> perhaps coffeescripts __extend implementation
04:26 < jmoyers> since its designed to go back as far as ie6 i think
04:27 < Raynos> syskk: you need to overwrite the the arrays
04:27 < Raynos> ApplicationController.prototype.actions_ = {}
04:28 < syskk> i don't get why AccountController and HomeController share the same hash
04:28 < syskk> yea, should be https://gist.github.com/3847096
04:28 < Raynos> because its a bug
04:28 < syskk> i mean ApplicationController.prototype.actions_ = {}
04:28 < Raynos> yeah do that
04:29 < Raynos> also dont use an array
04:29 < Raynos> use an object
04:29 < syskk> yea, i fixed that
04:29 < Raynos> also dont use controllers
04:29 < syskk> but I still don't get the desired behavior
04:29 < Raynos> this is not rails
04:29 < syskk> i am not. just a dummy example
04:30 < syskk> mm is it because objects are passed by reference maybe?
04:34 < syskk> ok. it works if i reset the actions_ property
04:39 < niftylettuce> any node dev's here have a nexus7?
04:50 < syskk> how to clone an object in Node.js?
04:51 < syskk> Object.create(obj) right?
04:51 < SomeoneWeird> definec lone
04:51 < SomeoneWeird> define clone*
04:54 < syskk> copy
04:54 < SomeoneWeird> new Object(obj) should work too
04:55 < SomeoneWeird> >> new Object({a:"b"});
04:55 < purr> SomeoneWeird: (object) {a: 'b'}
05:10 < chovy> mscdex: thnaks
05:32 < Raynos> Here's an interesting require problem
05:32 < Raynos> You give me an uri to a file. I require that file. That file requires an npm module. I want to mutate the state of that npm module without knowing where it is or how to get it
05:32 < Raynos> Any way to do that without global backdoors?
05:38 < deltab> Raynos: redefine 'require'?
05:38 < Raynos> deltab: can't do that. it's a local variable
05:38 < deltab> ah
05:38 < Raynos> ive found another backdoor
05:38 < Raynos> which is abuse browserify
05:47 < jmoyers> raaaar
05:52 < Raynos> abusing browserify is so easy and fun :D
05:57 < Raynos> AST munging is fun
06:01 < niggler> blah im debating whether it makes more sense to rework jison or to start fresh
06:37 < Sven_vB> jison looks fine
06:40 < ranyu> i have a problem with async.queue ; in this example code i push 2 tasks to the queue but only the first one gets executed 
06:40 < ranyu> http://pastebin.com/qZU4cXsn
06:41 < ranyu> can anyone tell me what im doing wrong?
06:54 < deltab> ranyu: nothing obvious to me
07:11 < etcetera> is there anything similar to node-dev?
07:11 < etcetera> https://github.com/fgnass/node-dev
07:12 < etcetera> hmm, nodemon is much more popular.
07:12 < jmoyers> supervisor
07:12 < jmoyers> is another.
07:14 < Raynos> supervisor++
07:14 < Raynos> forever should be used if you want a more background solution
08:00 < chjj> Raynos: whats up
08:00 < Raynos> chjj: was going to ask about marked
08:00 < Raynos> but forgot what
08:00 < chjj> Raynos: hehe, alright
08:00 < chjj> Raynos: sorry i took so long to respond
08:01 < Raynos> its cool
08:01 < Raynos> lets see if i can jog my memory
08:02 < Raynos> chjj: maybe you should default the highlight function to highlight.js
08:03 < chjj> Raynos: maybe
08:09 < Raynos> chjj: is there any way to share links between multiple markdown snippets?
08:09 < Raynos> I have a [1]: link declaration and want to share among multiple snippets
08:11 < chjj> Raynos: like a global variable? or some kind of included file? marked doesn't do any kind of IO so the latter isnt possible, and neither is the first. however, you could hook into the parser and always add something to the `.links` object if you really wanted.
08:12 < Raynos> well i have a weird program
08:12 < Raynos> that parser markdown out of javascript comments
08:12 < Raynos> and each is considered a seperate snippet
08:12 < Raynos> I guess I can invoke the lexer manually
08:12 < Raynos> and then mess around with thelinks object
08:13 < chjj> Raynos: hook `marked.parse` and just ensure that `tokens.links[1]` exists.
08:13 < chjj> Raynos: that would be the easiest way
08:14 < Raynos> :)
08:14 < Raynos> sweet
08:52 < dandv> Hmm WAY more people here than in #meteor
08:53 < SomeoneWeird> i wonder why...
08:53 < yawnt> lol
08:54 < Raynos> ...
08:54 < Raynos> why on earth would there be more peopel in meteor
08:56 < Sven_vB> what is meteor?
08:56  * SomeoneWeird unsure whether Raynos mean't that as a pun or not
08:56 < Raynos> conincidence
08:57 < Raynos> meteor is a silly framework
08:58 < chovy> i have a few lines like this:
08:58 < chovy> exports.foo = function(){ };
08:58 < chovy> exports.bar = function(){}
08:58 < chovy> how can i call foo from bar?
08:58 < kuja> exports.foo()
08:58 < chovy> do i just do exports.foo() ?
08:58 < chovy> k
08:58 < Raynos> ...
08:58 < kuja> alternatively
08:59 < Raynos> make them local variables
08:59 < kuja> exports.foo = function foo() {}
08:59 < Raynos> kuja: that wont work
08:59 < Raynos> exports.foo = foo; ... later ... function foo() { }
08:59 < kuja> oh, well then exports.foo = foo
08:59 < Raynos> but exports is bad
08:59 < Raynos> dont do that.
08:59 < Raynos> use module.exports = singleFunction
09:00 < kuja> You mean to promote small modules?
09:01 < kuja> (why is it bad to export multiple functions)
09:02 < deoxxa> Raynos: wat
09:02 < deoxxa> Raynos: that would so work
09:02 < deoxxa> you're correct in that it's not the best way to do it, but it's not specifically wrong either
09:03 < deoxxa> kuja: smaller module means smaller api surface and less room for dubiously related functionality to creep in
09:03 < chovy> i have a lot of exports.whatevers 
09:03 < chovy> in same file
09:04 < Raynos> its bad to export multiple things
09:04 < kuja> deoxxa: Yeah I understand, I was just wondering if that was actually the reason or not for saying one should export a single function
09:04 < Raynos> if you need multiple tokens
09:04 < Raynos> do module.exports = { ... }
09:04 < deoxxa> Raynos: you are a man of contradictions
09:04 < Raynos> not contradictions.
09:04 < chovy> what's the diff between module.exports = {} and exports = {}
09:04 < Raynos> its about 
09:04 < deoxxa> > it's bad to export multiple things
09:04 < Raynos> defining your exports in one place
09:04 < deoxxa> > do module.exports = { ... }
09:04 < Raynos> exports.x = ...
09:04 < Raynos> is scattered all over the file
09:05 < Raynos> module.exports = { .. } is one statement
09:05 < Raynos> it helps readability
09:05 < chovy> so i have to do:
09:05 < deoxxa> that pretty strongly falls into the territory of opinion and taste, Raynos
09:05 < chovy> exportable = { foo: fn1, bar: fn2 }; module.exports = exportable;
09:05 < chovy> how is that better?
09:06 < kuja> chovy: IMO it is up to you to decide that
09:06 < kuja> I think we are discussing preference here
09:06 < chovy> k
09:06 < Raynos> not realy
09:06 < kuja> That's what it's reading like.
09:06 < pyrotechnick1> http://bikeshed.com/
09:06 < chovy> but do i need the modules.exports vs. just exports?
09:06 < Raynos> exports is fine
09:06 < Raynos> just make sure you do it all in one place
09:06 < pyrotechnick1> http://violet.bikeshed.com/
09:06 < Raynos> and dont mix logic & exporting 
09:07 < chovy> what do you mean all in one place?
09:07 < deoxxa> Raynos: please. if you don't know the answer, don't just guess.
09:07 < Raynos> ~_~
09:07 < chovy> i export each function i want to expose.
09:07 < icebox> chovy: usually, when a style matter arises, I give a look at other projects
09:07 < chovy> seems pretty similar to just doing public foo() in php
09:07 < deoxxa> chovy: yes, there's a difference between module.exports and exports when you're assigning something to it wholesale. `module.exports = "x"` will not do the same thing as `exports = "x"`.
09:08 < chovy> i typically do this:
09:08 < deoxxa> chovy: `exports = "x"` will only modify a local variable, whereas `module.exports = "x"` will do what you'd expect it to do.
09:08 < chovy> exports.foo = {}
09:08 < chovy> exports.foo.bar = fn;
09:08 < chovy> exports.foo.biz = fn2;
09:08 < chovy> i find it easier to organize this way, so if there's a compelling reason not to do this...i'd like to know why
09:09 < chovy> i suppose i could do:
09:09 < chovy> var foo = {};
09:09 < chovy> foo.biz = fn1;
09:10 < chovy> foo.baz = fn2;
09:10 < chovy> exports = foo;
09:11 < kuja> I think you'd want module.exports = foo in that case
09:12 < jaseemabid> I have a small node module with few c++ functions on it. I named it foo and building it produces foo.node. Where do i add the js code if i want to add a JavaScript function onto my module? 
09:12 < kuja> But sure, you could do that if you'd like. I like icebox's suggestion, look at other peoples' code and go with what works best for you (for me, I like to look to isaacs' stuff for guidelines)
09:13 < chovy> kuja: what's the diff bewteen module.exports and just exports?
09:13 < kuja> To quote deoxxa from a moment ago: "< deoxxa> chovy: `exports = "x"` will only modify a local variable, whereas `module.exports = "x"` will do what you'd expect it to do."
09:13 < deoxxa> my basic thing is like `var Derp = module.exports = function Derp() {}; Derp.prototype.herp = function herp(lol, wut) { return lol + wut; };'
09:14 < kuja> chovy: They are the same object, however when you do "exports = something" you are assigning a local exports variable.
09:14 < kuja> And thus module.exports and exports become different objects
09:17 < chovy> ok
09:19 < Raynos> exports is a local variables
09:19 < Raynos> module is a local variable
09:19 < Raynos> module.exports === exports
09:19 < Raynos> when you require a module you get whatever the value of module.exports is
09:20 < Raynos> so when you overwrite the local exports variable with a new value you dont change module.exports at all
09:20 < chovy> k, now i'm confused
09:20 < kuja> Raynos laid it out pretty clearly ;)
09:20 < chovy> is it safe just to always use module.exports = foo;
09:20 < kuja> Yeah it is
09:21 < nathan7> var exports=module.exports={};
09:21 < Raynos> module.exports is always safe
09:21 < nathan7> that's basically the default
09:21 < nathan7> You can overwrite module.exports all you want after that
09:24 < mauritslamers> chovy: what can help is to see what require does exactly when loading a file
09:25 < mauritslamers> it wraps your code in a function, like function(global,module,exports){ // your code } 
09:25 < chovy> ok
09:26 < mauritslamers> so, that explains how module and exports exist in a code file
09:26 < chovy> i think to keep it simple i will declare an object, and then only assign once at the bottom.
09:26 < mauritslamers> and exports is also a property of module
09:26 < chovy> to exports.module = myobj
09:26 < mauritslamers> chovy: that won't work
09:26 < kuja> Why not at the top for readability sake? :D
09:26 < kuja> module.exports = myobj
09:26 < chovy> myobj is't defined yet
09:26 < chovy> i should probably read about modules 
09:27 < kuja> var myobj = module.exports = {}
09:27 < chovy> and i can add to it after that?
09:27 < mauritslamers> chovy: the reason why I said the thing about require, is exactly that
09:27 < mauritslamers> y
09:27 < mauritslamers> ou 
09:27 < mauritslamers> are writing code as in a function
09:27 < mauritslamers> so variables have function score, and are hoisted
09:27 < kuja> chovy: Sure, why not? Both variables are referencing the same object.
09:27 < chovy> ok
09:27 < chovy> makes sense
09:28 < mauritslamers> so wherever you define a variable, it will be hoisted to the top in order to be function scoped
09:29 < Raynos> just do an object literal
09:29 < Raynos> module.exports = { method1: method1, method2: method2 }
09:30 < chovy> Raynos: i think that will become unmanagable
09:30 < chovy> trying to track down where ending }'s are
09:31 < dandv> Sven_vB: don't listen to Raynos. Meteor is a really awesome framework based on node.js, check http://meteor.com/screencast
09:31 < chovy> i like foo.bar = function(){
09:31 < chovy> };
09:31 < gildean> chovy: get a decent editor that will hilight your brackets etc.
09:31 < kuja> chovy: I think he means that you can do: module.exports = {foo: foo}; function foo() {}
09:32 < kuja> But that seems like a matter of preference.
09:32 < chovy> i see
09:34 < rendar> hey meteor seems great
09:34 < yawnt> lolno
09:35 < jaseemabid> Need help adding both javascript functions and c++ functions on a module. Can anybody point me to some good examples/tuts? I can to do the basic job in c++ and make it *cleaner* in javascript. Now i compile and end up with a module.node file which i can require. I dont know where i can add js code in this
09:35 < jaseemabid> Sorry, i meant "I *want* to do the basic job in c++ and make it *cleaner* in javascript"
09:36 < icebox> jaseemabid: https://github.com/rbranson/node-ffi maybe it is a viable approach in your context
09:37 < jaseemabid> icebox, Thanks 
09:38  * sinclairzx grumbles
09:40 < rendar> yawnt: why not?
09:41 < yawnt> cause
09:41 < yawnt> it's like nodejs without everything nodejs has
09:41 < rendar> hmm
09:41 < yawnt> so you lose all the wonderful community and userland stuff that nodejs has
09:41 < rendar> i see
09:42 < rendar> yawnt: but all node.js packages can't be used with that?
09:43 < jaseemabid> icebox, I cant figure out how its all linked together. binding.gyp links to a cpp file. Dont know were you call the js files.
09:43 < rendar> yawnt: well they have different apis, so i guess not..
09:43 < yawnt> long story short is
09:43 < yawnt> if you use meteor
09:43 < yawnt> you are not using node
09:44 < yawnt> but yeah.. packages can be ported to meteor
09:44 < rendar> yawnt: i see
09:44 < icebox> jaseemabid: it is an addon for loading and calling dynamic libraries using js, not viceversa
09:45 < rendar> yawnt: how node.js packages are written? using node.js apis? i mean, if i have another js framework like node, i couldn't run node's packages because they use different apis..
09:45 < icebox> jaseemabid: js -> c/c++ dynamic libraries
09:45 < jaseemabid> icebox, I want to define module.foo with c++ and module.bar with js. Thats all
09:46 < icebox> jaseemabid: and then? what is your use case?
09:46 < icebox> jaseemabid: bar calling foo?
09:46 < jaseemabid> icebox, might happen. Is that important?
09:47 < hemanth_> i'm working with cluster, i have 4 workers listening on the same port, it being an HTTPServer, why does only 2 workers respond for each web request? and curl call from CLI is just one worker responding  
09:47 < icebox> jaseemabid: well... that choice defines your tools :)
09:47 < jaseemabid> icebox, module.foo with c++ is done. I just dont know where put module.bar source. Now I compile and get a module.node. 
09:48 < SomeoneWeird> jaseemabid, create index.js which requires module.node and export foo and bar from that
09:48 < icebox> jaseemabid: ok... I have been saying another thing
09:49 < SomeoneWeird> ?
09:49 < jaseemabid> SomeoneWeird, make module_cpp, require it in js and add js stuff onto that? 
09:49 < SomeoneWeird> mhm
09:50 < jaseemabid> SomeoneWeird, So in my package.json, i say entry point is this index.js?
09:50 < SomeoneWeird> yerp
09:50 < jaseemabid> Ah, lot of refactoring now i guess.
09:51 < SomeoneWeird> shouldn't need to?
09:51 < SomeoneWeird> in index.js just do exports.bar = require('./module.node'); exports.foo = function() { console.log('whatever foo is'); });
09:51  * jaseemabid main in package.json saves the day
09:52  * jaseemabid is happy with the solution. Thanks SomeoneWeird icebox :)
09:53 < icebox> jaseemabid: you are welcome
10:03 < Gekz> is it enough to use socket.io over HTTPS, or do I need to think harder to make sure it doesn't leak data out of an insecure websocket?
10:07 < tuhoojabotti> hey icebox 
10:08 < icebox> tuhoojabotti: hey
10:08 < icebox> tuhoojabotti: thanks for the latest commits
10:08 < icebox> tuhoojabotti: the latest changes for my user completing would be nick, join and part of the other users :)
10:09 < tuhoojabotti> yeah
10:09 < icebox> *completion
10:12 < tuhoojabotti> icebox: only my computer just broke. :P
10:13 < Raynos> chovy: dont inline those methods. literallyt { foo: foo, bar: bar } ... function foo() {} function bar() {}
10:13 < Raynos> chovy: function declarations hoist up
10:14 < icebox> tuhoojabotti: sigh! :(
10:18 < hemanth_> are cluster deffered ?
10:23 < dandv> anyone using Handlebars? what do triple {{{ mean ? (posted at https://github.com/wycats/handlebars-site/issues/28 an example)
10:25 < sinclairzx> dandv: im using mustache 
10:26 < icebox> dandv: I think it is about a safe string or not
10:27 < dandv> I found the Handlebars docs annoying and lacking... triple { vs double { isn't explained
10:33 < sinclairzx> hmm
10:38 < sinclairzx> hey all, is it fairly common to find the "on" and "data" and "end" events on stream things?
10:47 <@mbalho> sinclairzx: https://github.com/substack/stream-handbook http://nodejs.org/api/stream.html
10:49 < sinclairzx> mbalho: cheers
10:55 < sinclairzx> mbalho: take a bit of effect to think asynchronously aye
10:58 < mafiahunt> Would node.js be a good choice for a web mafia game?
10:58 < mafiahunt> Mafia is basically text based chat.
11:00 < yawnt> mafiahunt: sure
11:01 < dandv> mafiahunt: meteor would be bette
11:02 < mafiahunt> dandv: I've looked into meteor but.. it seems like a security nightmare
11:02 < dandv> mafiahunt: it's not. they just haven't updated the docs. essentially, you put your server code in the server/ directory. see also http://britto.co/blog/security_with_meteor
11:02 < dandv> and the auth branch lets you prevent modifications to the DB
11:03 < dandv> I REALLY wish the meteor guys covered security in the screencast, because this turns off many new devs
11:04 < mafiahunt> I think I'll build the game / chat part with meteor
11:05 < mafiahunt> and the others like community, forums, accounts with PHP
11:05 < mafiahunt> Would this be possible?
11:06 < deoxxa> dandv: i really wish they covered how to use npm with it as well
11:06 < deoxxa> dandv: and if they maybe covered how the architecture is well thought-out and at all a good idea
11:06 < yawnt> why would you use meteor when there's derby
11:06 < deoxxa> dandv: and maybe if they also described how they manage to keep a straight face while saying some of the things they say
11:06 < yawnt> at least derby is nodejs
11:08 < dandv> deoxxa: meteor's smart packages are more complex than npm. But to use node modules, see https://github.com/tmeasday/unofficial-meteor-faq#what-about-node-modules
11:09 < deoxxa> dandv: apologies, that was all sarcasm. meteor is a steaming pile of feces.
11:09 < dandv> yawnt: meteor is much more actively developed, better funded, and better marketed
11:09 < yawnt> and sucks more too
11:09 < yawnt> :D
11:10 < deoxxa> lol @ smart packages
11:10 < yawnt> ^
11:10 < deoxxa> dandv: you're not going to find a lot of love for meteor here. they basically took node and removed the two coolest parts - asynchronous program flow and npm.
11:10 < yawnt> i'll tell you what dandv .. i've known geoff and n1mmy since way before meteor became meteor.. it was called skybreak
11:11 < yawnt> and i liked what they were building
11:11 < yawnt> but as time passed it become more and more a platform itself
11:11 < yawnt> so yeah.. it raised a tons of millions.. but why would you throw away everything npm has to offer? why would you use fibers when callbacks is the de-facto standard?
11:11 < dandv> hm... I just read all of nodebeginner.org today but I'm new to meteor.
11:11 < yawnt> it's not nodejs.. it's a whole other platform
11:12 < deoxxa> mmm
11:12 < yawnt> you like it? fine.. but don't talk about meteor as if it was nodejs
11:12 < mafiahunt> What about node.js + express + socket.io?
11:12 < yawnt> i like that better
11:13 < dandv> yawnt:  why use fibers? because http://bjouhier.wordpress.com/2012/03/11/fibers-and-threads-in-node-js-what-for/
11:13 < yawnt> wops
11:13 < yawnt> sorry deoxxa 
11:13 < yawnt> didn't read you already spoke bout async and npm
11:13 < yawnt> ;_;
11:13 < yawnt> I BEG YOUR PARDON, SIR
11:13 < mafiahunt> http://www.nodebeginner.org/ is great, ty for sharing
11:14 < yawnt> dandv: i never found myself to have pyramids of doom
11:14 < dandv> you can use Aync with meteor, http://gist.io/3443021
11:14 < yawnt> i think the reason why meteor choose fibers was only a matter of target
11:14 < yawnt> people aren't used to callbacks
11:14 < yawnt> so you get more users if you have everything in a sync fashioned
11:15 < yawnt> *fashion
11:15 < dandv> mafiahunt: I'm no expert in either node.js or meteor, but it seems to me that yawnt and deoxxa are just a bit bitter... your choice
11:16 < dandv> yawnt: yes, meteor's target is to make web development easy, for complex business logic as well, where you do end up with callback pyramids
11:16 < yawnt> i've seen a lot of complex code
11:16 < yawnt> working perfectly with no pyramids at all
11:17 < dandv> did it use streamline.js?
11:17 < yawnt> no
11:18 < mafiahunt> which one is easy to learn / use? It's going to be my first 'real' node.js project
11:18 < dandv> mafiahunt: check out https://vimeo.com/49433252
11:25 < mafiahunt> Wait
11:26 < mafiahunt> Meteor isn't asynchronous?
11:26 < yawnt> yeah
11:26 < yawnt> but it looks like it's not
11:28 < mafiahunt> I see, ok
11:50 < jaseemabid> [npm install ./] is not moving local package to ~/node_modules so im unable to require it somewhere else. How do i fix this?
11:59 < milani> jaseemabid, go tou your somewhere-else, then npm install /path/to/your/module
12:06 < fotoflo> Hey all.  What is the best library for doing Facebook 0auth?
12:07 < fotoflo> is it DracoBlue? (8 months old)
12:07 < milani> fotoflo, what abt everyauth?
12:07 < milani> fotoflo, https://github.com/bnoguchi/everyauth
12:08 < fotoflo> looks good
12:09 < yawnt> fotoflo: passport
12:09 < yawnt> don't use everyauth
12:09 < yawnt> it's an API nightmare
12:15 < fotoflo> ughh, internet snow day here
12:17 < fotoflo> yawnt: if I've already built a local way to authenticate users, will i have to throw it out and switch to passport for local authentication?
12:17 < yawnt> fotoflo: passport supports multiple auth
12:18 < fotoflo> yawnt: i see that
12:18 < yawnt> so you can have local and facebook
12:18 < yawnt> side by side
12:18 < fotoflo> right, but i should throw out my existing local and switch to passport
12:18 < Mandragor> Hi all
12:18 < yawnt> fotoflo: i'd do that
12:20 < Mandragor> First time for me on this irc chanel
12:20 < yawnt>  welcoem
12:20 < Mandragor> hoped I'd could find some help for trying to make a socket.io app work
12:22 < Mandragor> I can manage to make a Handshake between my server and my other client server but ... have problems to make the respound go to the client ....
12:22 < Mandragor> can't figure why
12:22 < Mandragor> and getting desperate
12:26 < Mandragor> anyone could help for a socket.io problem ?
12:26 < Mandragor> for a crossdomain server
12:26 < Mandragor>  ?
12:30 < Mandragor> Does anyone tryed a sockeT.io cross server application ?
12:34 < max``> .
12:35 < Mandragor> anyone active here ?
13:24 < syskk> is it possible to know at runtime how many arguments are in a function definition? arg_count(function(a,b,c) {}) should return 3
13:25 < TehShrike> syskk: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/JavaScript/Reference/Functions_and_function_scope/arguments
13:26 < stagas> syskk: fn.length
13:26 < TehShrike> Oh, right, what stagas said. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Function/length
13:28 < syskk> nice
13:28 < syskk> thanks :)
13:28 < Mandragor> does anyone knows where the socket.io.js should be for a cross domain application (client side or server side ?)
13:31 < fotoflo> if I set an object in two different collections:  a["test"] = mySameSameObject;   b["test"] = mySameSameObject;  Do we store mySameSameObject twice, or simply once pointer?
13:36 < syskk> is there a Array.popFirst in js?
13:38 < syskk> Array.shift 
13:48 < gavri> grunt's lint does not pick up options from ~/.jshintc. where do the options have to be specified?
15:19 < Brandon_R> who wants to play powderkeg?
15:48 < SomeoneWeird> anyone done twitter oauth authentication?
15:48 < yawnt> i did
15:49 < nathan7> SomeoneWeird: I'd probably use everyauth for it if I did
15:50 < SomeoneWeird> yeah, I looked at it but it doesn't seem to implement everything
15:50 < SomeoneWeird> unless i'm just looking wron
15:50 < SomeoneWeird> g
15:50 < yawnt> ;_;
15:50 < yawnt> nathan7: everyauth is terrible :(
15:50 < nathan7> yawnt: bring us something better
15:51 < nathan7> yawnt: I don't like it either but I'm lazy
15:51 < nathan7> yawnt: I hate fiddling with oauth
15:51 < SomeoneWeird> yeah oauth is yuck
15:51 < nathan7> It's a necessary evil.
15:51 < nathan7> That kind of stuff is never gonna be sexy.
15:51 < SomeoneWeird> some would beg to disagree 
15:52 < nathan7> oauth needs to work over HTTP, cross-domain, and be secure
16:03 < Acionyx> Hello! I need help: i have an error "Cannot POST /" while trying to post file to site; i'm using express and there is config(file ./routes/indexpost.js exists): 
16:03 < Acionyx> ...
16:03 < Acionyx> routes = require('./routes')
16:03 < Acionyx> ...
16:03 < Acionyx> app.post('/', routes.indexpost);
16:03 < Acionyx> ...
16:06 < RLa> Acionyx, where you get that error, in browser?
16:07 < Acionyx> Yes, after sending post request with xml file attached(in form)
16:07 < RLa> do you get some error in node console too
16:07 < Acionyx> there are 404 in the node console
16:07 < Acionyx> POST / 404 9ms
16:09 < RLa> weird
16:10 < RLa> can you paste app.js code somewhere
16:11 < jbrokc> hey - i just did `brew upgrade node` which symlinked npm and all. then did `npm install -g <lib>`. how come going into a node shell and doing `require('<lib>')` gives me a module cannot be found error (if it was installed globally)?
16:11 < Acionyx> where i can paste it? in chat?
16:12 < RLa> Acionyx, pastebin.com for example
16:12 < jbrokc> (by going into a node shell I mean just dropping `node` and typing in `require('<lib>')`)
16:12 < RLa> do not paste more than 2 lines in chat
16:12 < Acionyx> thanks a lot, i'm newbie for this things. http://pastebin.com/ghDCH69m
16:12 < nathan7> jbrokc: because npm install -g is not for require()ing
16:13 < nathan7> jbrokc: It's purely for stuff with binaries and things
16:13 < jbrokc> aw, what's the global install then? or is that gone now?
16:13 < nathan7> jbrokc: npm link them into your node_modules if you want to require() them
16:13 < nathan7> jbrokc: That *is* global install
16:13 < RLa> Acionyx, code looks ok
16:13 < nathan7> jbrokc: I personally have a ~/node_modules with a bunch of stuff I use a lot
16:13 < jbrokc> so i *have* to use a local node_modules file in order to use packages?
16:13 < RLa> Acionyx, tho you should put router middleware after static middleware
16:14 < RLa> not sure if that would matter in current case
16:16 < jbrokc> nathan7: i'm still not getting how to link it (or what linking does)
16:17 < Acionyx> RLa, what did you mean? code is almost created by express , i've changed only one line - so order must be right?
16:17 < jbrokc> nathan7: oh, nevermind
16:18 < jbrokc> thanks
16:18 < yawnt> nathan7: i read now
16:18 < yawnt> passport
16:18 < yawnt> or authom
16:18 < RLa> Acionyx, did you restart the server after adding your own code?
16:19 < yawnt> (i like passport better)
16:19 < Acionyx> RLA, of course i did
16:20 < RLa> hm, what else could be it
16:20 < RLa> you could paste the handler's code too but i can't see why it should matter
16:21 < RLa> oh wait
16:21 < RLa> i think i got it
16:21 < RLa> you define routes outside app.configure()
16:22 < RLa> move them into the function and it should start working
16:23 < Acionyx> like this? http://pastebin.com/Wuse14qk
16:24 < Acionyx> it doesn't =(
16:25 < Acionyx> that is indexpost.js http://pastebin.com/uuWfzZeB
16:25 < Acionyx> maybe it will help
16:25 < nathan7> jaequery: C=
16:25 < nathan7> yawnt: ?
16:26 < yawnt> nathan7: passport
16:26 < yawnt> alternative to everyauth
16:26 < nathan7> !
16:26 < nathan7> Passport.js was what I was looking for
16:26 < nathan7> I keep finding awesome libs but forgetting their names
16:27 < yawnt> i'm developing something that should fix that
16:27 < yawnt> stay tuned
16:27 < yawnt> ;)
16:27 < Mandragor> Hi everyone
16:29 < RLa> Acionyx, you moved app.post into configure function and it's still not working?
16:30 < RLa> oh i see you did
16:30 < nathan7> yawnt: tell me the name
16:30 < nathan7> yawnt: so I can forget it q=
16:30 < Acionyx> Yes, yes
16:30 < RLa> Acionyx, is the GET part working?
16:30 < Acionyx> RLa, it's working okey and there are form, where i'm sending my file
16:32 < RLa> is indexpost pseudocode?
16:33 < RLa> or is that really code as-is?
16:35 < Acionyx> http://pastebin.com/uuWfzZeB code as-is. I'm don't understand, what is "pseudocode"?(in example, please, my english is bad )
16:36 < RLa> you are then missing var keyword on line 2
16:37 < Acionyx> I've added "var", restarted, there is same error
16:49 < cainus> Acionyx: get rid of the second "indexpost" on line 1
16:50 < Acionyx> cainus, did. still same result
16:50 < cainus> gimme current code, plus error message
16:52 < cainus> also, what editor do you use?
16:55 < Acionyx> cainus, "Cannot POST /" in case of POST request. GET request is ok to the "/"
16:55 < Acionyx> current code for ther app.js http://pastebin.com/aLJbv2TX
16:55 < Acionyx> current code for ther indexpost.js http://pastebin.com/UezAutam
16:55 < Acionyx> eclipse juno(jee)
16:55 < Acionyx> in the console(2 requestget&post) there is 
16:55 < Acionyx> Express server listening on port 3000
16:55 < Acionyx> GET / 200 48ms - 307
16:55 < Acionyx> GET /stylesheets/style.css 304 16ms
16:55 < Acionyx> POST / 404 1ms
16:57 < cainus> you should get this: http://github.eclipsesource.com/jshint-eclipse/
16:57 < Guest14007> do any of you use delicious? the bookmarking thing
16:58 < cainus> Acionyx: I'd put a console.log() in the top of your post ahndler to see if it even gets there
16:59 < harrisonm> Guest14007: used to, but I'm probably going to get a Pinboard account soon
16:59 < Guest14007> harrisonm: why pinboard over delicious?
17:00 < harrisonm> No ads/sponsored links/whatever, simple interface, hasn't been run through a sale/acquisition blender
17:00 < cainus> Acionyx: 404 seems to suggest it doesn't even know about your handler... probably something like a bad import... bad filename or something like that
17:01 < RLa> Acionyx, can you make single-file test case
17:01 < Guest14007> harrisonm: why not just use your browser's bookmark feature if those features are priorities?
17:01 < thl0> when implementing a stream interface, what is the best way to handle non-fatal errors
17:02 < Acionyx> cainus, i'm thinking so -> console is empty, .log() isn't executed. will try in single file
17:02 < thl0> ie. I don't want to emit('error') since that disconnects piped streams and thus kills it
17:03 < cainus> don't emit anything if there's nothing that needs to be done about it
17:03 < thl0> is there a standard way how this should be done for streams or should I just emit a custom event e.g, emit('warning')
17:04 < thl0> well I want to warn the user that (in my case a file couldn't be processed)
17:04 < cainus> if it's a probably that needs to be handled specifically, then it should break the pipe
17:04 < Acionyx> cainus, if put function in app.configure it will work, so why it doesn't see a file?
17:04 < plato> hey has anyone used amazon ec2 here?
17:04 < plato> i'm wondering if there are any disadvantages to developing on it as opposed to deploying a finished product
17:05 < thl0> cainus: in that case emitting a warning that user may choose to listen on is probably the best way to go?
17:05 < cainus> Acionyx: I don't see you importing it
17:05 < Acionyx> but "routes.index" for GET works! why doesn't work "routes.indexpost"?
17:05 < cainus> thl0: does streaming continue afterward?
17:06 < RLa> Acionyx, routes = require('./routes') <- this assumes index.js in routes directory is clever
17:06 < Guest14007> harrisonm: did you see my other question? it might've gotten lost in the sea of lines
17:06 < cainus> ah heheh
17:06 < RLa> Acionyx, can you paste routes/index.js somewhere? or is that same as indexpost.js?
17:07 < thl0> cainus: yes, since it is a non-fatal error - it keeps processing other files
17:07 < cainus> one stream with *many* files?
17:07 < RLa> btw, i think index.js is stupid idea anyway
17:07 < RLa> maybe it solves some problems but most of time i have only seen hacks in it
17:08 < Acionyx> RLa, imports only "index", but not the "indexpost"? damn...
17:08 < cainus> I think putting each route in a separate file is silly too
17:08 < niggler> thats true of most frameworks RLa 
17:08 < thl0> cainus: it's a recursive file reader: https://github.com/thlorenz/readdirp
17:08 < RLa> and it breaks ides depend how clever those hacks are
17:08 < thl0> cainus: here is the stream api I have so far: https://github.com/thlorenz/readdirp/blob/master/stream-api.js
17:09 < cainus> thl0, how do you tell the beginning and end of each file if they're all in the same stream?
17:09 < thl0> cainus: it just resolves the file entries, not the contents
17:10 < cainus> what does that mean?
17:10 < Acionyx> So, if i understand you right, i need to add functions to  var exports.{routename}  in one file - index.js ?
17:10 < thl0> cainus: like fs.readdir but recursive
17:10 < RLa> Acionyx, you can require() separate files, like indexpost = require('routes/indexpost')
17:10 < cainus> if you put 2 files in one stream you need some way to delimit between them
17:10 < RLa> Acionyx, no var with exports
17:10 < cainus> or do you use n streams for n files?
17:10 < RLa> "exports" is already declared/defined variable in nodejs
17:10 < thl0> cainus: the stream emits file entries one by one
17:11 < cainus> file "entries"?
17:11 < RLa> Acionyx, you should read this: http://nodejs.org/docs/latest/api/modules.html
17:11 < cainus> pointers to files?
17:12 < thl0> cainus: objects as described here: https://github.com/thlorenz/readdirp#entry-info
17:12 < cainus> alright... so what error can occur?
17:13 < Acionyx> RLa, thank, will read it. So, i maked it work! Solution was to put exports.{functionname} in one file called index.js
17:14 < cainus> Acionyx: probably better to learn to do it without index.js .  Otherwise all your source files will be named index.js.  :)
17:14 < thl0> cainus: ie. could run out of file descriptors (since fs.stat accesses the file) or a file could be removed right after it was found, but before fs.stat executes
17:15 < cainus> and you don't want to break pipe in either case
17:15 < thl0> nope, since the other files can still process
17:15 < cainus> yeah you could emit warning... or you could have an error message in the "entry"
17:16 < thl0> but I think I got the point now, I'll just emit a warning if the pipe should continues
17:16 < thl0> :)
17:16 < thl0> thnx
17:16 < cainus> alright cool ;)
17:16 < Acionyx> maybe you can give some links to "howto" make correct routes in app?)
17:16 < Acionyx> If you knew how hard to learn nodejs without full documentation in own language...
17:17 < cainus> you're making the routes just fine.  you're just importing modules incorrectly
17:17 < cainus> you could just have a routes.js instead of a routes/index.js
17:18 < Mandragor> anyone knows a cross domaine socket.io tutorial ?
17:19 < Mandragor> or exemple ? to explain how not to have the  "XMLHttpRequest cannot load" problem
17:19 < Mandragor> I have a Handshake but nothing goes out
17:20 < cainus> Mandragor, maybe http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10235905/socket-io-doesnt-set-cors-headers
17:20 < Acionyx> best library for parsing xml content?
17:21 < cainus> Acionyx: rackspace has an elementree lib
17:22 < cainus> https://github.com/racker/node-elementtree
17:22 < Acionyx> thanks!
17:53 < Acionyx> how can i pass my vars from app.js to all functions in routes.js ? i've tried something like require('./routes.js')({xml:xml}), but there are many functions, so it doesn't work
17:55 < mscdex> Acionyx: you could pass your app object to your route modules
17:55 < mscdex> oh wait nvm i misread that
17:56 < cainus> no I think that's what he means
17:56 < Acionyx> mm, i've also tried this: in app.js line app.set('xml',xml), and how can i access it in function in route, where are only req&res?
17:56 < Acionyx> access "app" i mean
17:58 < cainus> doesn't req have an app var on it?
17:58 < cainus> I assume you're using express
17:59 < cainus> req.app.get('xml')
17:59 < rendar> would it be easy for js to be connected to C++ code, and to represent a C++ instance? even if js uses the prototype design
17:59 < cainus> oh no... req.params.xml
18:00 < cainus> there's a way, but I don't use express, so I should stfu and stop guessing :)  check the docs :)
18:01 < Bux> Gentlemen, I greet you
18:02 < Acionyx> console.log(req.params); puts "[ ]"
18:02 < Acionyx> any ideas?
18:02 < harrisonm> Guest14007: Stepped out for a while.  Because you also get sharing, sync with a lot of services, excellent API
18:02 < cainus> console.log(req.app); ?
18:03 < harrisonm> Guest14007: Not saying Delicious may not work fine for your needs, but it seems cleaner/more useful to me
18:03 < Guest14007> harrisonm: ah i see
18:04 < Acionyx> req.app.settings.xml works fine, thanks for idea)
18:05 < cainus> cool...knew it was something like that
18:05 < Acionyx> you are using pure node without framework?
18:06 < cainus> I wrote my own framework like everyone else.  heh
18:06 < cainus> you're better off not knowing about it.  ;)
18:06 < cainus> express is pretty good, especially starting out
18:08 < Acionyx> first i did was making own template manager, but then i confessed, that my knowledges are tiny and it is too early to do things like framework)
18:08 < cainus> templates have pretty much been done to death too 
18:08 < mscdex> kinda like flow control
18:09 < mscdex> ;-)
18:10 < cainus> yeah I probably went through a million flow control libs before I realized I didn't need any of it
18:10 < cainus> everything short of icedcoffeescript 
18:10 < Qbix1> hi people and sup
18:11 < Acionyx> flow control... my brain breaks after years of silly php =\
19:15 < Slade-> hey whats the appropriate way to 'error' if somethings wrong.. like calling a function with a missing param
19:19 < AAA_awright> Slade-: What in particular?
19:19 < AAA_awright> usually throw new Error or callback(new Error)
19:20 < Slade-> AAA_awright: writing a function that expects a table with specific items. i wanna error if those items arent there
19:21 < Slade-> in this case, its ip address, port, etc)
19:21 < AAA_awright> Slade-: You can silently fail (no input no output) or `throw new Error` if you decide it's outside the domain of your function
19:22 < Slade-> is Error javascript standard? or something specific to nodejs
19:30 < cainus> Slade-: standard: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Error
20:20 < TehShrike> Excellent: https://github.com/felixge/faster-than-c
20:20 < jtomasrl> is there an open source API code made in node?
20:21 < TehShrike> blurg?
20:21 < TehShrike> ...yes?
20:31 < Fodi69> hi, how can I run some event in a previously defined time without a request? I use express
20:32 < Fodi69> so for example I want to run something on 13:45 tomorrow, a function
20:34 < matbee> run a datetime check every minute
20:34 < matbee> lol
20:35 < Fodi69> matbee: o_O ?
20:36 < shanse> https://github.com/ncb000gt/node-cron
20:37 < shanse> Fodi69: ^
20:37 < Fodi69> shanse: i'm checking it 
20:37 < shanse> if you're using redis you can also use its timers
20:38 < Fodi69> I want to run multiple node processes
20:39 < ttoz> hello from California
20:40 < Fodi69> and what can this "node-cron" do when I restart the server, or create a new node instance
20:40 < Fodi69> ?
20:54 < cainus> anyone know the magic to make travis use 0.8.x?
20:55 < chilts> cainus: http://paste.dollyfish.net.nz/884044.txt <- as many versions as you want
20:55 < cainus> I don't want to specify exact version though
20:56 < chilts> 0.8 will use the latest 0.8 they have available
20:56 < cainus> ahh okay cool
20:56 < cainus> thanks
20:56 < chilts> or just try it with 0.8.whatever and see if that works
20:59 < cainus>  58 tests complete (3241ms)
20:59 < cainus> I'd like to see rails do that
21:08 < jmoyers> npm install --dev installs devDependencies and is the correct way to do that, right?
21:08 < jmoyers> shit feels like its going in a loop...
21:09 < kuja> jmoyers: I did not notice that option ever, but I use 'npm install' and it seems to install my dev dependencies.
21:11 < jmoyers> yeah npm install --dev does something awful
21:11 < jmoyers> as far as i can tell
21:16 < harrydog> anyone know, in express, do i have to add socket.io to the package.json dependencies?
21:17 < harrydog> i try calling io.sockets.on, but io.sockets says "undefined" in the console
21:41 < Hupo> okay
21:42 < jbergstroem> bnoordhuis: ping. got some segfaults on the buildbot again
21:42 < Hupo> actually wait, nevermind, I just figured it out
21:42 < bnoordhuis> jbergstroem: where/what?
21:44 < Hupo> or actually
21:45 < jbergstroem> bnoordhuis: sent to you in priv. prefer public chat?
21:46 < bnoordhuis> jbergstroem: oh, it's okay - but i tend to miss pms
21:50 < Hupo> today I learned that you can access chars in a string with "string"[index]
21:51 < insin> ...in some JS implementations
21:53 < jmoyers> yes.
21:54 < Hupo> I also learned that ! can be used in rather esoteric manner like !+0 & !+false (comes out as true), !+1 & !+true (comes out as false) and !+string/array/object (comes out as true)
21:56 < Hupo> now I just need to figure out why ++[0][0] / ++[[]][0] works and gives 1 but for example ++0, ++[], ++[][] and many other combinations don't
21:58 < Hupo> or actually rather why ++[[]][0] works but ++[] doesn't
21:58 < Hupo> or actually I guess it kinda makes sense
21:58 < Hupo> damn
21:58 < Hupo> how mind-bending
22:03 < jmoyers> you.. dont actually *need* to know that
22:03 < jmoyers> at all
22:03 < Hupo> no, of course I don't
22:04 < jmoyers> :-)
22:04 < Hupo> but I want to understand how this comes out
22:04 < Hupo> so ++ only works on "pointers", which is why ++0 fails but ++[0][0] works, because you're "pointing" to the first element of the array (that you just defined)
22:06 < jmoyers> well it works on a variable
22:07 < Hupo> yeah, and in context of my previous sentence, variable would be a "pointer"
22:07 < Hupo> because you can't really call [0][0] a "variable", can you now?
22:07 < Hupo> or I guess you can since array elements are "variables"
22:07 < Hupo> w/e IT JUST WERKS
22:08 < jmoyers> right well
22:08 < jmoyers> its not super common to say 'pointer' in javascript
22:08 < Hupo> it sure isn't
22:08 < jmoyers> because that means something very specific
22:08 < Hupo> I know
22:08 < Hupo> that's why I used quotes
22:08 < Hupo> "pointers"
22:08 < gkatsev> references, not pointers
22:08  * jmoyers does the 'air quotes' motion
22:10 < jmoyers> before i write this
22:11 < jmoyers> does anyone know if there is an express plugin (or anything) that precompiles templates from linkedin's fork of dust and serves it based on a directory path?
22:12 < jmoyers> im thinking views/* would serve a consolidated js file with all views, named and registered as available partials, then views/specificView would give just the views for that part of the directory structure.
22:12 < jmoyers> that way, if you wanted to incrementally load templates, you could. but you could also grab a fully concatted/minified version all at once, also
22:18 < Industrial> Anyone use node-seq? https://gist.github.com/f74cc8fd86faafe62a52 Howcome the last function (with p 'LOL') doesn't get run? in the debugger, it ends returning null from line 49 and then the .seq handler just never called
22:20 < jmoyers> eyes burn
22:21 < bingomanatee> hi there
22:21 < jmoyers> wassah
22:22 < bingomanatee> i know its OT but … anyone have good recommendations for a slide show powers by JS/(d)html?
22:22 < jmoyers> googles template is my favorite
22:22 < jmoyers> from this years io
22:22 < gkatsev> impress.js
22:22 < jmoyers> bingomanatee http://code.google.com/p/io-2012-slides/
22:22 < jmoyers> i've done a few presos with it
22:23 < jmoyers> the annoying part is when my company is like "hey bro, can i get those in powerpoint?"
22:23  * jmoyers screams NO!
22:23 < gkatsev> bingomanatee: http://bartaz.github.com/impress.js/#/bored
22:24 < Hupo> speaking of templates, I find templatizer to be pretty awesome if you need to do client-side rendering
22:24 < bingomanatee> thx
22:24 < jmoyers> templatizer is jade only
22:24 < jmoyers> which makes me sadface
22:25 < Hupo> true, but jade is fabulous!
22:25 < jmoyers> not my style
22:25 < Hupo> well, I can understand that
22:25 < Hupo> I thought it wasn't my style either but now that I've actually used it for a while I have to say it's quite nice
22:25 < jmoyers> i've been thinking about using consolidate.js to build a general purpose compiler
22:26 < jmoyers> the problem is that not all (in fact most) template engines don't have a 'base' vs a 'compiled template instance' architecture
22:26 < Hupo> true that
22:26 < Hupo> it's one of the big reasons why I like jade, tbh
22:27 < Hupo> it's awesome that you can compile the templates into pure JS functions 
22:27 < jmoyers> jade does it well, dust does it well
22:28 < jmoyers> handlebars too: http://handlebarsjs.com/precompilation.html
22:30 < jmoyers> handlebars has a specific `precompile` funciton which looks exactly like what one might need -- https://github.com/wycats/handlebars.js/blob/master/bin/handlebars#L127
22:57 < Hupo> +[[+!+[[]]]+[![]][+[[]+[]]]++] === 10
22:57 < Hupo> javascript sure is fun
22:58 < Aria> Gotta love type coercion
22:58 < Hupo> indeed
23:07 < mscdex> >> 010 == 10
23:07 < purr> mscdex: (boolean) false
23:08 < aho> >> 010
23:08 < purr> aho: (number) 8
23:08 < aho> :>
23:09 < mscdex> ;-)
23:10 < mscdex> >> 0 === -0
23:10 < purr> mscdex: (boolean) true
23:10 < mscdex> >> 0.0 === -0.0
23:10 < purr> mscdex: (boolean) true
23:10 < mscdex> :O!
23:11 < aho> >> 1/0
23:11 < purr> aho: (number) Infinity
23:11 < aho> >> 1/-0
23:11 < purr> aho: (number) -Infinity
23:11 < aho> useless! :D
23:12 < aho> but yea... there is a way to differentiate between those two values
23:13 < aho> >> 1/0 === 1/-0
23:13 < purr> aho: (boolean) false
23:14 < Hupo> >> Infinity
23:14 < purr> Hupo: (number) Infinity
23:14 < Hupo> >>Infinity = 9
23:14 < purr> Hupo: (number) 9
23:14 < Hupo> >>Infinity
23:14 < purr> Hupo: (number) Infinity
23:14 < Hupo> >>Infinity = 9; 1/0
23:14 < purr> Hupo: (number) Infinity
23:15 < Hupo> also, just checked out the google io html5 slide deck linked earlier 
23:16 < Hupo> looks neat
23:18 < hillct> Good evening all. I'm running into an issue with bodyParser/Formidable where after writing my uploaded image file, Formidable gives up http://pastebin.com/fvkJfSKv due to an improperly formatted body, but I need to be able to see what's been uploaded. What event do I need to hook onto so I can at least log the body content?
23:18 < aho> Infinity is a read only constant, which holds the IEEE 754 value for infinity, which is a magical value which is larger than any other value (itself included)
23:19 < aho> in older engines this value could be overwritten
23:19 < aho> just like undefined could be overwritten
23:53 <@Nexxy> anyone here in Berlin?
23:55 < Daegalus> Nexxy: i can safely say that i am not in berlin
23:55 <@Nexxy> well damn
23:55 <@Nexxy> it's 2am here and I want to go out
23:56 < Slade-> and you're asking in a javascript channel?
23:56 < Daegalus> Nexxy: but if you ever need someone in the southern bay area, give me a shout
23:56 <@Nexxy> uh yes. JSConfEU just happened
23:56 <@Nexxy> here in Berlin
--- Log closed Mon Oct 08 00:00:32 2012